The Footie Thread

[DPapas1982]

That's the greatest PL goal IMO.

Rooney's was more important and in a bigger game but can't think of any that can touch yesterdays one.

Recency bia imo.

Rooneys isn't top 20. It's shinned. His goals against Newcastle is better. And his first ever (I believe) against Arsenal.

Di canio, Yeboah, Le Tissier, Van Persie to name a few who have more than 10 (combined) better than either of the overhead kick imo.

 

[RichA]

Only seen the highlights but the last Fulham penalty was stupidly soft. Another one where the attacker knew exactly what he was doing add just ran into the defender.
I don't understand how Willian can get away with his penalty taking technique either. The first one he stuttered waiting for the keeper to move; the second one the keeper held his ground so long that Willian actually stopped before kicking the ball.

 

[RichA]

Recency bia imo.

Rooneys isn't top 20. It's shinned. His goals against Newcastle is better. And his first ever (I believe) against Arsenal.

Di canio, Yeboah, Le Tissier, Van Persie to name a few who have more than 10 (combined) better than either of the overhead kick imo.

Yep. GOTS is meaningless anyway, but successful overhead kicks rely on so much luck as to be more spectacular than skilful, if they come off.
Rooney's is a prime example. He mistimed it so badly that the ball was 12 inches from his boot but it's still remembered more than a decade later.
Garnacho's goal was the most spectacular this season but he was probably pleasantly surprised it went between the corner flags, never mind being on target.

 

[Swango1980]

Yep. GOTS is meaningless anyway, but successful overhead kicks rely on so much luck as to be more spectacular than skilful, if they come off.
Rooney's is a prime example. He mistimed it so badly that the ball was 12 inches from his boot but it's still remembered more than a decade later.
Garnacho's goal was the most spectacular this season but he was probably pleasantly surprised it went between the corner flags, never mind being on target.

I'd argue nearly any player who has scored a spectacular goal relies on luck, and is pleasantly surprised when they go in. After all, we've seen similar attempts from them before that just miss, or miss by a lot. Or maybe they score a screamer, but it still goes in middle of net. But keeper isn't in a position to save it, maybe just loops over him and dips under crossbar.

Garnacho has pretty much met the ball technically perfectly, exactly as he intended. He probably did have some thought as to what he hoped to happen, I.e he probably knew if he met it well it would go high and across goal. That turned out to work out perfectly as well.

I certainly wouldn't be dismissing the quality of a goal just because it is an overhead kick and relies on luck. In fact, the feeling that it relies on luck is entirely because it is such a difficult skill to execute, which in my mind enhances the quality of the goal.

BTW, Rooney's was immense. To generate so much power and still get it in the top.corner from his shin is ridiculously good . One of my all time favourites from Man Utd that goal.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

COME ON YOU WHITES!!!

To be honest we were lucky but the number of injury time goals and marginal decisions we've had go against us we were always going to get one game when we got all the luck and Wolves were the unlucky team. At 1-1 I felt it could have gone either way and had that Wolves attempt that hit the bar (great move and effort) gone in they'd have gone on to win. I would have taken 2-2 and I would have been annoyed had the head butt been such as it was had been given as a red but don't give the officials the decision to make. Not a penalty but you take the luck when it comes and the win lifts a lot of pressure and back to an 11 point gap to the bottom 3. You can guarantee any marginal decisions will go against us at the weekend when we play Liverpool at Anfield!!!!

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I'd argue nearly any player who has scored a spectacular goal relies on luck, and is pleasantly surprised when they go in. After all, we've seen similar attempts from them before that just miss, or miss by a lot. Or maybe they score a screamer, but it still goes in middle of net. But keeper isn't in a position to save it, maybe just loops over him and dips under crossbar.

Garnacho has pretty much met the ball technically perfectly, exactly as he intended. He probably did have some thought as to what he hoped to happen, I.e he probably knew if he met it well it would go high and across goal. That turned out to work out perfectly as well.

I certainly wouldn't be dismissing the quality of a goal just because it is an overhead kick and relies on luck. In fact, the feeling that it relies on luck is entirely because it is such a difficult skill to execute, which in my mind enhances the quality of the goal.

BTW, Rooney's was immense. To generate so much power and still get it in the top.corner from his shin is ridiculously good . One of my all time favourites from Man Utd that goal.

It would be immense if he meant it . No way shape or form did he mean to shin it

 

[Orikoru]

Yeah, that Garnacho goal is probably goal of the season but to rank it with some of the all time Prem goals is a bit much. I prefer ones with a bit more of a deliberate pick the spot from distance kind of vibe. That overhead, while he may have struck it perfectly, he's not aiming for a spot in the goal so there's a little more luck involved.

Hard to pick an all time best but Garnacho might be top 50. It's definitely better than Rooney's since that came off his shinpad so was about 90% luck as it could have gone anywhere.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Yeah, that Garnacho goal is probably goal of the season but to rank it with some of the all time Prem goals is a bit much. I prefer ones with a bit more of a deliberate pick the spot from distance kind of vibe. That overhead, while he may have struck it perfectly, he's not aiming for a spot in the goal so there's a little more luck involved.

Hard to pick an all time best but Garnacho might be top 50. It's definitely better than Rooney's since that came off his shinpad so was about 90% luck as it could have gone anywhere.

But the quick thinking & the technique.
It’s definitely up there for me.

 

[TimShady]

If a goal being lucky to go in in some way detracts from it being considered a superb goal, then let’s just give goal of the season to a penalty.

 

[Orikoru]

If a goal being lucky to go in in some way detracts from it being considered a superb goal, then let’s just give goal of the season to a penalty.

You can't see that there are different degrees of luck? Rooney's was more lucky than Garnacho because it hit his shin rather than his boot. Beckham's goal from the halfway line though, just as an example: he looked up, saw the keeper off his line, and executed the perfect lob from 60 yards or whatever that distance is. Almost no luck involved whatsoever.

 

[TimShady]

You can't see that there are different degrees of luck? Rooney's was more lucky than Garnacho because it hit his shin rather than his boot. Beckham's goal from the halfway line though, just as an example: he looked up, saw the keeper off his line, and executed the perfect lob from 60 yards or whatever that distance is. Almost no luck involved whatsoever.

Look at how many shots even the best teams have in a game. Then see how many are actually on target. Then how many actually go in. Luck is HUGE.

 

[TimShady]

Anyone see the two Fulham pens give me an unbiased opinion please?

I'm close to giving up.

The first one is definitely a penalty. Don’t see how you can question that one.

For the second one, there’s enough contact from the defender for a penalty and putting your hands up to appear innocent as you make contact doesn’t change that. My issue with that penalty should be it was innocuous enough in appearance that it’s not clear and obvious. If VAR are going to look at every penalty, they need to just say that and drop the clear and obvious claim.

 

[Orikoru]

Look at how many shots even the best teams have in a game. Then see how many are actually on target. Then how many actually go in. Luck is HUGE.

That's a completely different factor. Number of shots per game have no impact on how good a particular goal is. I'm talking about elements of the strike itself. i.e. did he strike it the way he wanted to? Garnacho did, Rooney didn't. Did he pick a spot in the goal to aim at or just hit and hope? Both of the overheads were most likely hit and hope as it's difficult to pick a spot when you're upside down. Whereas Beckham's (to continue that example) needed to be perfectly measured to go over the goalie and under the bar, so you can say he picked his spot on that one.

 

[TimShady]

That's a completely different factor. Number of shots per game have no impact on how good a particular goal is. I'm talking about elements of the strike itself. i.e. did he strike it the way he wanted to? Garnacho did, Rooney didn't. Did he pick a spot in the goal to aim at or just hit and hope? Both of the overheads were most likely hit and hope as it's difficult to pick a spot when you're upside down. Whereas Beckham's (to continue that example) needed to be perfectly measured to go over the goalie and under the bar, so you can say he picked his spot on that one.

I understand what you’re saying but I’m just not having it as an argument against the quality.

If anything, the odds against an overhead going in makes the execution even better, no?

For me the star factor in what makes these goals special is enhanced by the fact it probably should end up in the stands but it doesn’t.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This is such a subjective one. The best goals for me are a sweeping move from back to front, slide rule passes with a clinical finish at the end. It might be a tap in finish but the move was a thing of beauty.

Rooney's is a funny one. At first glance, it was a stunner. There is a saying in many sports, 'look in the book, there are no descriptions'. I think Rooneys 'shinner' is the exception to that rule .

 

[Orikoru]

I understand what you’re saying but I’m just not having it as an argument against the quality.

If anything, the odds against an overhead going in makes the execution even better, no?

For me the star factor in what makes these goals special is enhanced by the fact it probably should end up in the stands but it doesn’t.

Remember I wasn't saying that Garnacho's goal was rubbish, I said it was probably goal of the season, just not the best goal OF ALL TIME. Some perspective here please.

I'm going to do the unthinkable and come up with my top ten Premier League goals of all time list... watch this space.

 

[clubchamp98]

This is such a subjective one. The best goals for me are a sweeping move from back to front, slide rule passes with a clinical finish at the end. It might be a tap in finish but the move was a thing of beauty.

Rooney's is a funny one. At first glance, it was a stunner. There is a saying in many sports, 'look in the book, there are no descriptions'. I think Rooneys 'shinner' is the exception to that rule .

Yes I agree.
A classy move from back to front and a class finish for me.
But in the ground the overhead kick does look good.

Its like a 80 ft putt you are trying to hole it but there’s an element of luck involved.

 

[Swango1980]

You can't see that there are different degrees of luck? Rooney's was more lucky than Garnacho because it hit his shin rather than his boot. Beckham's goal from the halfway line though, just as an example: he looked up, saw the keeper off his line, and executed the perfect lob from 60 yards or whatever that distance is. Almost no luck involved whatsoever.

There was luck in Beckhams goal. His intention was to do what he did, but you still need luck for it to go in where it did. He even said in his documentary that he felt it had a chance when he saw it starting to curl back round to the right when it was in flight. If there was no luck, he'd have been certain of scoring before he even hit it.

Beckhams intention was to lob the keeper, but whether it went in the left, middle or right of the goal was irrelevant. Whether it bounced first was irrelevant. As long as the keeper couldn't get it and it was on target.

Garnacho's intention was to take a shot and score a goal. Whether it went in off the bar, post or just straight in was not relevant. As long as it missed the keeper and was on target. I highly suspect he knew that if he executed it well, it would go towards the far side of the goal though, and high. It was never a technique that would send the ball to the near post, or get a bouncer. Not unless he mishit it. So I'd say Garnacho's goal was very much technically better than Beckhams from the half way line, and I don't think it required any more luck. Or at least, the only extra luck needed is the outcome in executing the kick in the first place, given it is so hard to pull off.

 

[RichA]

Remember I wasn't saying that Garnacho's goal was rubbish, I said it was probably goal of the season, just not the best goal OF ALL TIME. Some perspective here please.

I'm going to do the unthinkable and come up with my top ten Premier League goals of all time list... watch this space.

Don't forget you're mostly discussing this with United fans. They're probably thrilled if their players stay on their feet in the box long enough to get a shot in before they hit the ground.

 

[TimShady]

Don't forget you're mostly discussing this with United fans. They're probably thrilled if their players stay on their feet in the box long enough to get a shot in before they hit the ground.

And there’s always one child who enters the conversation.