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The Footie Thread

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Tashyboy said:
First sentence, it’s more than the odd game that England are boring in, it’s a regular occurrenc.

Second sentence, who has he given a chance to, playing players out of position when better players are not even in the squad. Square pegs round hole.
Third sentence, what exactly is Englands style of play. Sort that out and then players can try to play in that system. He has been manager long enough to now have a style of play. In the few “ friendly” games he has had he has played teams and players that will never ever again play together again.
Fourth sentence, Southgate has said” we are not where we should be”. That is down to him and no one else. Malta as a team were organised, well organised. England were not. It was painful to see ( the few minutes I watched) a team play in a match that was important in a sense of a win wins the group. There were players in that squad that could and would have bust a gut had they been given a chance. They were not and won’t be given a chance.
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If we are talking about players, we can argue that for eternity. If every single one of us could pick our preferred players and line up, I doubt anyone would have the same side.

I think players like (when fit) Maguire, Shaw, JWP, Grealish and Pickford should be in the first 11. Others think the same, others think the complete opposite. Southgate has the advantage of working with them face to face, and has people employed to watch them week in, week out. He is in a stronger position than us to pick the side, yet undoubtedly all managers would have their own ideas.

Last night there were 6 or 7 players in the starting line up who probably wouldn't be in his line up at the Euros. Are you simply not going to be haply until he makes 11 changes? Or is it just a subjective argument about personal? I'm not a fan of Henderson being there, personal opinion. But, if he is making many changes, perhaps it isn't a terrible idea to pick your experienced players, Pickford, Maguire, Henderson and Kane down the spine.

Sure, they didn't win 8-0, so it gives many England fans to slam Southgate any time they get the chance.

For me, boring game, yes it was. But they won it with ease, job done. Winning 8-0 is probably not going to.improve their chances in the Euros. Conceding a goal or 2, and not winning comfortably, could be a lot more damaging to confidence.
 
"England won with ease"?
Against a team who has only one against them once in a meaningless friendly and never in a real match, and a team who took it to England and stopped England from having any shots on goal in the first half?
To play players out of position is stupid. Sven did it with Gerrard and Lampard, and it never worked.
Hendo should retire from international footy now, his choice to go to Saudi thats up to him but he should walk away from England.
We have a forward who keeps going so deep he's back with the defenders.
Football is about entertainment as well as results. Scraping a narrow win isn't entertainment when the match is as it was.
Would Arteta, Pep, Klopp, De Zerbi play like that?
Perhaps when Saudi decide to bring in who they want to Newcastle, Howe should be given the England job straight away.
 
If I have one main criticism of England. It’s their style of play, or should I say lack of style. What exactly is it. We don’t have a plan A so I won’t even hazard a guess what plan B is.
And that is down to one person.
Then look at the women’s team going from strength to strength 😳👍
 
Swango1980 said:
England have 19 points out of a possible 21, in a group with Italy and Ukraine. They are 6 points clear of 2nd placed team.

In this instance, what more do we want? It is unacceptable they haven't got 21 points. Is there an acceptable number of goals thet need to score? Except for Portugal, England has the joint best goal difference in the Qualifying, alongside Spain.

Personally, I don't think it is worthy of excessive criticism. When fans expect much more than that, it does come across as arrogant. If England were in a fight to qualify, I could understand the concerns. But they are qualifying at a canter.
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I think the criticism is justified, the worry of the majority of England fans is when and if we get to the latter stages of big tournaments and coming up against the best sides in the world we will struggle the way Southgate wants to play.

If England were more positive in the final against Italy we would have won and a great chance was missed.

I think we all know this group of players is the best we have had for a long long time and should be capable of winning a big tournament.

Build the side around Bellingham and Kane two of our world class players.
 
Those still defending Southgate and his conservatism, all I ask is that you think back to the Euros final against Italy. At home.

The single worst thing which could have happened in that game was for England to take an early lead. Once the euphoria of Luke Shaw’s once in a decade international goal had worn off, the reality kicked in, as England retreated deeper, and deeper and deeper into their own half to the point where the game was practically being played in our defensive third.

That’s not because we had poor players in that tournament. It’s because we have a manager who simply has no appetite to capitalise on his team’s strengths. Italy had a bang average side in 2021 - we had attacking talent in abundance. And yet Southgate opted to try and defend a 1-0 lead from three minutes in, rather than killing the game off. Every fan the length and breadth of the country could see what was coming. We should have won that tournament. The fact we didn’t is down to Southgate’s conservative approach.

So, yes. I’m miffed by last night’s performance. Performances breed confidence, which prompts performances and so on. England huff and puff their way through games which, with the talent available, should be won at an absolute canter. Be creative. Try new things. Just don’t crawl over the line against sides like Malta.

And before I’m told how well Malta played, come on. One of their substitutes plays for Notts County for pity’s sake. They appeared to play well because we were awful. End of.

I will come to accept our turgid performances in qualifying if we ever turn them into tournament success. But we don’t. And we won’t whilst Southgate continues to either ignore the talent available to him, or stifle it when he plays such players.
 
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Swango1980 said:
England have 19 points out of a possible 21, in a group with Italy and Ukraine. They are 6 points clear of 2nd placed team.

In this instance, what more do we want? It is unacceptable they haven't got 21 points. Is there an acceptable number of goals thet need to score? Except for Portugal, England has the joint best goal difference in the Qualifying, alongside Spain.

Personally, I don't think it is worthy of excessive criticism. When fans expect much more than that, it does come across as arrogant. If England were in a fight to qualify, I could understand the concerns. But they are qualifying at a canter.
Click to expand...

I had the pleasure of watching Tony Pulis’ brand of football at Middlesbrough. There’s winning and there’s swashbuckling winning - remember Keegan at N’castle. Win 1-0 with a sneaky goal then park the bus or hit the post, the bar & the keeper etc… that’s what we’re talking about here. Southgate sucks the fun out of it. If you’re happy with that, fine, but I’m not.
 
Hobbit said:
I had the pleasure of watching Tony Pulis’ brand of football at Middlesbrough. There’s winning and there’s swashbuckling winning - remember Keegan at N’castle. Win 1-0 with a sneaky goal then park the bus or hit the post, the bar & the keeper etc… that’s what we’re talking about here. Southgate sucks the fun out of it. If you’re happy with that, fine, but I’m not.
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With last night's game specifically,I suspect the fun was sucked out of it largely because so many unfamiliar players were playing together. We'll never know, but if he played 9 or 10 of the guys who nearly always play, things could have been a lot easier for them.

Sure, I agree he is too conservative a lot of the time. And when England fail to get a result because of this, then it is worth the criticism. Setting up to play lovely attacking football against Malta is probably not necessary, in that we all know what talents they have as players anyway. And if most of team are squad players, they'll never all play together anyway, so there isn't a lot to learn.

After the Euro's, I'll probably be in favour of Southgate being replaced, and looking for a coach who may provide more entertaining football. But recognising this will be a risk, and this coach may be weak in areas in which Southgate has done well. Until then, I'll probably try and remain upbeat about their upcoming games, not get overly disappointed if they fail to beat a minnow by loads of goals and save most criticism when they genuinely fail to deliver in an important game.
 
France didn't mess about against Gibraltar tonight!!!

Yes Gibraltar had a man sent off in the 18th minute but they were already 3 down by that stage.

39 shots
20 on target
14 goals

(Gibraltar's stats were not quite as impressive)
 
Swango1980 said:
I'll probably try and remain upbeat about their upcoming games, not get overly disappointed if they fail to beat a minnow by loads of goals and save most criticism when they genuinely fail to deliver in an important game.
Click to expand...

The two things are linked. You can't just switch it on and off. Sluggish performances shouldn't be accepted, not when 81,000 people turn up for a game like they did last night. There should be fierce competiton for places, not the guaranteed favourites getting their starts.

Before the World Cup we had a poor run of form and never recovered from it. This year Ukraine away and last night were shocking performances. Theres a culture developing where new players don't get a chance and the old guard get preferential treatment. This was everything Southgate stood against when he got the job. Ukraine and last night reminded me of the performances were saw during Roy Hodgson's tenre. Totally unacceptable.
 
nickjdavis said:
France didn't mess about against Gibraltar tonight!!!

Yes Gibraltar had a man sent off in the 18th minute but they were already 3 down by that stage.

39 shots
20 on target
14 goals

(Gibraltar's stats were not quite as impressive)
Click to expand...

And just when we were being told there’s no such thing as an easy game in international football any more. Who would have thought it?

😉
 
Billysboots said:
And just when we were being told there’s no such thing as an easy game in international football any more. Who would have thought it?

😉
Click to expand...
Haha, people have short memories in this world.

It is like they forget England ever beat North Macedonia 7-0, Iran 6-2 or San Marino 10-0

Or they forget France narrowly beat teams like Greece and Ireland 1-0, or lose to Tunisia in the World Cup.

And Malta are bad, but Gibraltar are much worse.
 
Swango1980 said:
With last night's game specifically,I suspect the fun was sucked out of it largely because so many unfamiliar players were playing together. We'll never know, but if he played 9 or 10 of the guys who nearly always play, things could have been a lot easier for them.

Sure, I agree he is too conservative a lot of the time. And when England fail to get a result because of this, then it is worth the criticism. Setting up to play lovely attacking football against Malta is probably not necessary, in that we all know what talents they have as players anyway. And if most of team are squad players, they'll never all play together anyway, so there isn't a lot to learn.

After the Euro's, I'll probably be in favour of Southgate being replaced, and looking for a coach who may provide more entertaining football. But recognising this will be a risk, and this coach may be weak in areas in which Southgate has done well. Until then, I'll probably try and remain upbeat about their upcoming games, not get overly disappointed if they fail to beat a minnow by loads of goals and save most criticism when they genuinely fail to deliver in an important game.
Click to expand...
I see where your coming from.
But one of the main complaints is they don’t get a lot of time together as a team to gel.
so given that you should play the A team when they do get together.

fringe players can do well inside the main team with experienced players around them.
But having so many changes just dosnt work .imo of course.
 
clubchamp98 said:
I see where your coming from.
But one of the main complaints is they don’t get a lot of time together as a team to gel.
so given that you should play the A team when they do get together.

fringe players can do well inside the main team with experienced players around them.
But having so many changes just dosnt work .imo of course.
Click to expand...
I agree with that personally. If it was me, if I wanted to give a few a chance, I'd make them play with at least 7 or 8 regulars, to try and at least have some familiarity. So new platers can play with guys who'll almost definitely be in side.

Others seem to want the full team to be different, and will moan as soon as any regular plays as "we already know what they can do".

In that sense, Southgate will never win over fans. Many hate him being their manager, and will use any ammunition at all to slate him. That's football I guess, we all have a moan from time to time.
 
Billysboots said:
Those still defending Southgate and his conservatism, all I ask is that you think back to the Euros final against Italy. At home.

The single worst thing which could have happened in that game was for England to take an early lead. Once the euphoria of Luke Shaw’s once in a decade international goal had worn off, the reality kicked in, as England retreated deeper, and deeper and deeper into their own half to the point where the game was practically being played in our defensive third.

That’s not because we had poor players in that tournament. It’s because we have a manager who simply has no appetite to capitalise on his team’s strengths. Italy had a bang average side in 2021 - we had attacking talent in abundance. And yet Southgate opted to try and defend a 1-0 lead from three minutes in, rather than killing the game off. Every fan the length and breadth of the country could see what was coming. We should have won that tournament. The fact we didn’t is down to Southgate’s conservative approach.

So, yes. I’m miffed by last night’s performance. Performances breed confidence, which prompts performances and so on. England huff and puff their way through games which, with the talent available, should be won at an absolute canter. Be creative. Try new things. Just don’t crawl over the line against sides like Malta.

And before I’m told how well Malta played, come on. One of their substitutes plays for Notts County for pity’s sake. They appeared to play well because we were awful. End of.

I will come to accept our turgid performances in qualifying if we ever turn them into tournament success. But we don’t. And we won’t whilst Southgate continues to either ignore the talent available to him, or stifle it when he plays such players.
Click to expand...
100%. These games against minnows are supposed to breed the style of play that you want to continue with. If you can't play free-flowing football against Malta then God help you in the actual tournament.
 
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