Orikoru
Tour Winner
Giroud was obviously in the manager's ear because he's worried about Mbappe nicking his record before he even retires.Not sure that bringing Giroud on at 67 minutes when you are 9-0 up can be classed as experimenting.
Swango1980
Well-known member
In a tournament, I suspect he'd have played a very different group of players. Players who have played together relatively often now, are comfortable playing together and have experience wearing the England shirt. I suspect he'd play players like Rice, Bellingham, Saka, Walker, etc. Last Friday it felt like a trial for too many players. They have been nervous, knowing it is a trial for them. They may take an extra touch or two, because they can't second guess where there team mate will be at any given time.
I'm guessing England managed to play free flowing football against San Marino, Iran and North Macedonia. I suspect when they beat Malta 4-0 away, it wasn't a bad performance, though can't remember off the top off my head.
Football performances are clearly not linear. Where, if you only narrowly beat a poor team, then you'll automatically struggle more against better teams. Otherwise City would be worried after losing to Wolves and Newcastle.
For me, these games against minnows aren't good at all for breeding a style of attacking play. If that was the thought, then I can see that leading to a false sense of security, thinking you're better than you are, and then getting a shock defensively when you play someone like France or Spain. I suspect Southgate is trying to build a really solid foundation of a team, a team that is difficult for anyone to play against. Make sure they are organized and do the "boring" but necessary things really really well. His challenge, but one I expect he is trying to take on, is to do this but allow the really talented attacking players to do their thing when the opportunities arise. He also needs to do better in games, sense when England are on top and manage the players to try and keep it that way. And if the team looks to be on the back foot, try and find a way to change that. I just don't think performances against Malta will help him, good or bad. Being up against adversity often enough, and learning how to cope with that, would probably be a much better way to improve himself and the team. Maybe the Nations Cup tournament is good in that respect, as it pits England up more often against their peers. Although it depends how seriously you want to take those matches I guess.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
But if he was trying to do that, he's doing it wrong. Playing Tomori, great, but you've stuck him out of position at left back to accommodate Harry bloody Maguire. Give Gallagher a start, fine, but why is he throwing another pointless cap to Henderson next to him? To babysit him? Bowen and Konsa who were actually worth a look at, stuck on the bench.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Southgate has gone on record as saying he wants England to be the number one related team in the world. We Are currently 4th and he wants to be in the top three when the next rankings Come out. I get that, but I would suggest that if he was not the manager we would already be in the top three. And playing good football.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
For my money, on paper we're the second best team in the world after France. The rankings however are pointless and always wrong regardless, so I wouldn't give any sway to them. They ranked Belgium as #1 for a long time while they were routinely underachieving due to being held back by an even worse manager than we are.
Swango1980
Well-known member
But, again, all that is happening is that we're arguing about individual players. Who should and shouldn't have played. We could play that game for infinity, as there is a case for many players to play and not play. So, we could argue until the cows come home how any team that was picked was wrong.
As I said, he probably played recognized and experienced players down the spine to at least give that know how and calmness, then fitted newer players round them. Personally, I think Henderson is lucky to ever be in the squad. But, given that he is, then there is the argument that Southgate sensibly chose him to be that experienced player. Maybe Southgate is even planning not to have Henderson as an automatic starter in future, and found this as the easiest way to keep him involved on the pitch.
In regards to the defence. It looks like he wanted to give Guehi the chance at Centre Back, and wanted to ensure he played with an experienced player who is used to leading the line, and playing the way Southgate wants. Throwing two completely new centre backs in, who are unlikely going to play together may well have seen completely unnecessary and something he will learn very little from. But Tomori still got his chance, and perhaps he also wanted to see what he would be like in a role at left back. Especially in case injuries mean he will need to look for players that can be versatile (England's left-backs don't seem to have a great injury record). He is probably comfortable that Tomori can play CB as well, if the need arises.
I suspect Southgate is very uncertain on Rashford right now. Instead of relying on his performaces in a poorly performing club side, he possibly wanted another chance to see how he'd play in an England shirt. This time, it wasn't so good for Rashford, as he was very similar to how he plays more Man Utd at the moment. That might be the nudge Southgate needs to look at another player when an important game comes along. He may even learn a lot more about his team in poor performances as he does in good ones.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Rather than focus on the previous match, let's focus on tonight. What would you ask of your England manager? For example:
Ramsdale
Walker Tomori Maguire Lewis
TAA Rice Gallagher
Bowen Watkins Grealish
- Play as strong a team as he can and try and give as strong a performance as he can?
- Play as many irregular players as he can, giving them experience in the England shirt
- A bit of both. And if so, what balance or experience and inexperience?
Ramsdale
Walker Tomori Maguire Lewis
TAA Rice Gallagher
Bowen Watkins Grealish
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I'd go pretty strong but I don't see the point of throwing in someone like Maguire - he already knows what Maguire gives us, indeed that's the only reason he's been making squads a lot of the time. I don't personally see the point in playing Lewis, he's only there because of injuries to others and he's highly unlikely to make the Euros squad. I'd like to see Konsa given a game at CB but with Trippier covering the left.
Your midfield and attack looks good to me. Players who actually have a chance of being in the final squad given a chance to impress and cement that place.
It would go a long way if he just didn't waste a spot on Henderson for start.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Trippiers gone home.
Id also like to see a totally different line up tonight.
Play Konsa, Watkins, Lewis, Palmer etc and just see what they can do.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I'm glad you put "etc". Otherwise I was going to say Konsa, Watkins Lewis and Palmer might struggle. I mean, at least give them a goalkeeper
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
Bowen left in England aswell, minor knock
Swango1980
Well-known member
Yeah, just read that now. Wonder if he'll give Cole Palmer a go?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Christ, do we have any players left? Has Hendo been knobbling them all in training to increase his caps collection even further - along with the incriminating images of Southgate that he presumably has.
Reemul
Head Pro
I always tyhink it's pointless making so many changes. Play a load of them that haven't played together much, struggle against NM and get stuffed in the press.
He had 2 games, 1st game core of 7 players and add 4. Sub in a few with 30 minutes to go. Second game core of 7 and 4 different other players, sub in a few with 30 minutes to go.
Change 11 players and watch us under perform and learn nothing.
GB72
Money List Winner
Agreed, if you want to get a decent idea about new players, you need to play them as part of the lineup that they are likely to be in so pointless playing a new striker with a whole new midfield behind him, play the people who will be giving the service in a real match.
Norrin Radd
Tour Winner
It doesn't matter what players he puts on the pitch ,he has told them to play defensive and with no passion or desire to do a proper job.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Come on you can’t blame Henderson for everything
Hes had the call from his country what’s he supposed to do , say “no”
GS the boss and he’s to blame , we have a lot of talent let’s start using it. Not older players .
But not all at the same time.
Play the first team imo , or it’s not worth them travelling !
Orikoru
Tour Winner
In short, yes! Plenty of players have retired from England duty for lesser reasons. It's called being the bigger man, not being selfish and putting your country and the fans first. He must know nobody wants him in the squad (bar the manager of course).Come on you can’t blame Henderson for everything
Hes had the call from his country what’s he supposed to do , say “no”
GS the boss and he’s to blame , we have a lot of talent let’s start using it. Not older players .
But not all at the same time.
Play the first team imo , or it’s not worth them travelling !
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I think the complete opposite.
Hes not good enough anymore I agree.
But you don’t say no to your country.
If his ambition is to play for England, and he’s called up I’d expect him to say yes. And I’d expect a player of that level to have tons of self-belief. If the manager believes in him, and he believes in himself and wants to play why would he withdraw?
Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather someone else got a game but I don’t expect him to withdraw.
