The Footie Thread

[Liverbirdie]

Ronaldo comes in and the rate he’s going atm he will have 20-30 goals this season,yet some think he effects the balance of the team.
Sorry totally disagree ,the others need to step up and start performing themselves along side Ronaldo.
He’s our centre forward who scores goals and lots of them and crucial ones to boot.
99% of teams would love Ronaldo
Liverpool wouldn’t.

Didnt Lineker get 42 goals in his one season at Everton - won nothing.

The season either side of that they won the league both times with the likes of Graeme Sharp, Andy Gray, Adrian Heath, Wayne Clark and Ian Marshall.

Ok, its not a recipe for winning the league, but a team that doesnt let many in and scores enough can win the league more than 1 player just scoring a shed load.

 

[Swango1980]

Didnt Lineker get 42 goals in his one season at Everton - won nothing.

The season either side of that they won the league both times with the likes of Graeme Sharp, Andy Gray, Adrian Heath, Wayne Clark and Ian Marshall.

Ok, its not a recipe for winning the league, but a team that doesnt let many in and scores enough can win the league more than 1 player just scoring a shed load.

I don't think there was any mention about a guaranteed league win. Simply that 99% of teams would love Ronaldo. And, I bet most teams back in the day would have preferred Lineker than the others mentioned.

Having players that can score a shed load of goals is quite the advantage. I doubt Liverpool fans would swap Salah for any forward at Man City, despite Liverpool not winning the league last season.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I don't think there was any mention about a guaranteed league win. Simply that 99% of teams would love Ronaldo. And, I bet most teams back in the day would have preferred Lineker than the others mentioned.

Having players that can score a shed load of goals is quite the advantage. I doubt Liverpool fans would swap Salah for any forward at Man City, despite Liverpool not winning the league last season.

No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush. Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.

 

[Papas1982]

No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush. Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.

Ahem,

RVP won the league for Fergies final season. Unless you believe that squad was decent…..

I agree that a good system can be as important. Liverpool for example have played some of the best footy for the last 5 years with arguably the weakest actual striker. But most good teams would still improve if they had a 30 goal a season player.

 

[Swango1980]

No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush. Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.

Would it be healthier for the team if Ole asked Ronaldo to score less?

 

[Swango1980]

No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush. Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.

Mind you, Liverpool were pretty woeful when Fowler was banging them in. So maybe your angle is that Liverpool would have been healthier without him?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ahem,

RVP won the league for Fergies final season. Unless you believe that squad was decent…..

I agree that a good system can be as important. Liverpool for example have played some of the best footy for the last 5 years with arguably the weakest actual striker. But most good teams would still improve if they had a 30 goal a season player.

?‍ Weakest ?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

?‍ Weakest ?

i hope he’s not referring to Big Divock Origi??

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Mind you, Liverpool were pretty woeful when Fowler was banging them in. So maybe your angle is that Liverpool would have been healthier without him?

There’s similarities between Liverpool of the 90’s post Kenny and Yernited post Ferguson, pissing money up the wall on over priced tat and relying on McMananaman/Fowler, in this case Ronaldo/Fernandes,to score goals whilst being a shambles defensively ?

 

[Papas1982]

?‍ Weakest ?

Of the big clubs yes.

Firminho. I know you say you'd not swap him and him brings everyone into play etc. But Jota seems to do just fine there too. Imo Mane and Salah could play uptop with anyone and do the business.

You guys are sensible with money. You splurged on VVD and Alison as they were the key areas. But I think you could fit many other strikers in that team and perform just as well with more goals too.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Of the big clubs yes.

Firminho. I know you say you'd not swap him and him brings everyone into play etc. But Jota seems to do just fine there too. Imo Mane and Salah could play uptop with anyone and do the business.

You guys are sensible with money. You splurged on VVD and Alison as they were the key areas. But I think you could fit many other strikers in that team and perform just as well with more goals too.

How is he the weakest ? Are you just looking at goals scored only and also ignoring the fact he isn’t really a striker ?‍

Just like City - we don’t play with a traditional striker hence why Firmino is far from the “weakest” when he is prob one of the best in that role in the league

I would have thought after 5 years now people would understand the role that he plays

 

[Lord Tyrion]

No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush. Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.

Very much agree with this. The problem, there are a few, with lumping all of your eggs in one basket with one player is what happens when that player has an off day, gets marked out of the game etc. How does the team respond when their default is to point everything towards that one player and that player is not scoring in that match?

Lineker was a great for us but we were better as a team with the combination of Gray / Sharp or Sharp / Heath.

 

[Swango1980]

There’s similarities between Liverpool of the 90’s post Kenny and Yernited post Ferguson, pissing money up the wall on over priced tat and relying on McMananaman/Fowler, in this case Ronaldo/Fernandes,to score goals whilst being a shambles defensively ?

I completely believe that is a fair point, well certainly pre Ole in terms of pissing money up the wall. Transfers since have been better, though prices often inflated when clubs as rich as United bid for a player.

The point you make is backing up my view however in this specific discussion. We rely on players like Ronaldo and Bruno, to make up for shambolic team play. When people try and say "Ronaldo is the problem" it is almost laughable, as ridiculous as me trying to tell Liverpool fans Fowler was the problem in the 90's.

United have, quite possible, the best No. 9 in the world, even at 36. I loved Ruud Van Nistlerooy, yet I still believe Ronaldo is just an absolute genius of a footballer. That is one massive tick in terms of what every good football team needs, or at least would love. If a team performs worse after getting such a player, especially when that player is producing the goods, to me it has nothing to do with that player making the team worse. It is a massive stain on the manager for being unable to get anywhere near the potential of that team. But, as I said and others to, performance wise we were pretty damn poor last year as well, and largely got away with it. So, we may actually not be worse at all than last year generally, it is just we have made slightly less comebacks, whilst Liverpool and Chelsea have improved hugely.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I completely believe that is a fair point, well certainly pre Ole in terms of pissing money up the wall. Transfers since have been better, though prices often inflated when clubs as rich as United bid for a player.

The point you make is backing up my view however in this specific discussion. We rely on players like Ronaldo and Bruno, to make up for shambolic team play. When people try and say "Ronaldo is the problem" it is almost laughable, as ridiculous as me trying to tell Liverpool fans Fowler was the problem in the 90's.

United have, quite possible, the best No. 9 in the world, even at 36. I loved Ruud Van Nistlerooy, yet I still believe Ronaldo is just an absolute genius of a footballer. That is one massive tick in terms of what every good football team needs, or at least would love. If a team performs worse after getting such a player, especially when that player is producing the goods, to me it has nothing to do with that player making the team worse. It is a massive stain on the manager for being unable to get anywhere near the potential of that team. But, as I said and others to, performance wise we were pretty damn poor last year as well, and largely got away with it. So, we may actually not be worse at all than last year generally, it is just we have made slightly less comebacks, whilst Liverpool and Chelsea have improved hugely.

For me Ronaldo would walk into any team in the premier League and improve them

City desperate for a striker
Liverpool he for me would replace firmino and having him Salah and mane , wow
Chelsea would improve

Rest go without saying really

 

[Lord Tyrion]

A question for utd fans. Have you changed your style of play this season to accomodate Ronaldo? Are you playing the same as last season and he is simply finishing the moves or are you playing differently to play to his strengths?

This isn't a trick question. I rarely watch utd play so can't make comparisons.

 

[pokerjoke]

I completely believe that is a fair point, well certainly pre Ole in terms of pissing money up the wall. Transfers since have been better, though prices often inflated when clubs as rich as United bid for a player.

The point you make is backing up my view however in this specific discussion. We rely on players like Ronaldo and Bruno, to make up for shambolic team play. When people try and say "Ronaldo is the problem" it is almost laughable, as ridiculous as me trying to tell Liverpool fans Fowler was the problem in the 90's.

United have, quite possible, the best No. 9 in the world, even at 36. I loved Ruud Van Nistlerooy, yet I still believe Ronaldo is just an absolute genius of a footballer. That is one massive tick in terms of what every good football team needs, or at least would love. If a team performs worse after getting such a player, especially when that player is producing the goods, to me it has nothing to do with that player making the team worse. It is a massive stain on the manager for being unable to get anywhere near the potential of that team. But, as I said and others to, performance wise we were pretty damn poor last year as well, and largely got away with it. So, we may actually not be worse at all than last year generally, it is just we have made slightly less comebacks, whilst Liverpool and Chelsea have improved hugely.

100%
If people see Ronaldo as a problem they need to join the Hockey league.
He has improved every team he’s played for,but all of a sudden he’s messed up Utd whilst still scoring world class goals and winning games single handed.
Others players need to step up its that simple.
If Pogba played to his full potential we would have a world class midfielder but he doesn’t,how would that be Ronaldo effecting the balance of the team.
I can actually see us going on a run,sooner of later it will click with some of these players.
It’s up to Ole to get them playing and that’s probably where the problem lies atm.
I really can’t see Utd getting rid of Ole ,definitely not in the near future,he needs to learn how to get the best out of what potentially is a great squad.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Very much agree with this. The problem, there are a few, with lumping all of your eggs in one basket with one player is what happens when that player has an off day, gets marked out of the game etc. How does the team respond when their default is to point everything towards that one player and that player is not scoring in that match?

Lineker was a great for us but we were better as a team with the combination of Gray / Sharp or Sharp / Heath.

Those relationships were formed over a few seasons though. Gray left when Lineker arrived and as much as he only won the ridiculous Charity Shield we were runners-up in the League and Cup.

Through no fault of our own we/Lineker were denied European football so he went to Spain. Who knows what partnerships could of been formed had he stayed?

That one season Lineker scored 38 league goals Sharp & Heath scored 21 & 14.

That was less than they scored the season after when we won the league.

So I’d agree in principle about putting all your eggs in one basket, but highlighting the fact that’s not really what happened.

You have to remember Lpool were at their height and dominated English football during that period.

 

[Bdill93]

How is he the weakest ? Are you just looking at goals scored only and also ignoring the fact he isn’t really a striker ?‍

Just like City - we don’t play with a traditional striker hence why Firmino is far from the “weakest” when he is prob one of the best in that role in the league

I would have thought after 5 years now people would understand the role that he plays

I get his role for you - but I think Kane would do a similar job creatively/ dragging defenders away - but also throw another 5-10 goals into the mix too.

Lukaku the same.

These are both £100 million players though

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Those relationships were formed over a few seasons though. Gray left when Lineker arrived and as much as he only won the ridiculous Charity Shield we were runners-up in the League and Cup.

Through no fault of our own we/Lineker were denied European football so he went to Spain. Who knows what partnerships could of been formed had he stayed?

That one season Lineker scored 38 league goals Sharp & Heath scored 21 & 14.

That was less than they scored the season after when we won the league.

So I’d agree in principle about putting all your eggs in one basket, but highlighting the fact that’s not really what happened.

You have to remember Lpool were at their height and dominated English football during that period.

I know we were millimetres from cleaning up that year and it could all have been so much different. A second year for him, we may well have won the lot. We did change our style slightly though to accommodate him so I do back @Liverbirdie point.

 

[Billysboots]

A question for utd fans. Have you changed your style of play this season to accomodate Ronaldo? Are you playing the same as last season and he is simply finishing the moves or are you playing differently to play to his strengths?

This isn't a trick question. I rarely watch utd play so can't make comparisons.

I’ve tried to conjure up a response to this but I really can’t. Not because I don’t understand the game, I promise you, but because I genuinely cannot work out how United are trying to play this season - there simply appears to be no system or structure.