The Footie Thread

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Bdill93 said:
Yeah maybe.. but its 100m gamble that also might not work. Bobby does.
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Any signing is a gamble. Not sure where the £100m comes in though, unless I am missing something. However, this is not really about having to go through the process of purchasing a player, it is simply who would you rather have, Ronaldo or Firminho? Imagine there is no extra cost either way. Otherwise, we could ask a Lincoln City fan if they'd rather have Ronaldo or Tom Hopper. If they were thinking about the money, they could well say they'd stick with Cooper, because they'd have to raise a ridiculous amount of money to get Ronaldo, which could bankrupt them (or financial fair play would make such a move impossible even if they had the money)
 
Swango1980 said:
Any signing is a gamble. Not sure where the £100m comes in though, unless I am missing something. However, this is not really about having to go through the process of purchasing a player, it is simply who would you rather have, Ronaldo or Firminho? Imagine there is no extra cost either way. Otherwise, we could ask a Lincoln City fan if they'd rather have Ronaldo or Tom Hopper. If they were thinking about the money, they could well say they'd stick with Cooper, because they'd have to raise a ridiculous amount of money to get Ronaldo, which could bankrupt them (or financial fair play would make such a move impossible even if they had the money)
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My original discussion was not all about Ronaldo or Firminho. It was about Firminho being the "weakest" striker in the top 4.


Bdill93 said:
I get his role for you - but I think Kane would do a similar job creatively/ dragging defenders away - but also throw another 5-10 goals into the mix too.

Lukaku the same.

These are both £100 million players though :ROFLMAO:
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100m is what a proven top striker costs in todays market. Release clause's not counting of course.
 
Bdill93 said:
Yeah maybe.. but its 100m gamble that also might not work. Bobby does.
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Yes , see the point but every transfer is a gamble really.
I like Cavanni in that role he works very hard and can finish.
Just a bit old now.
I think Kane would be ideal plays like Bobby but great finisher given the chances we would make for him.
Bobs not going to last forever.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
How is he the weakest ? Are you just looking at goals scored only and also ignoring the fact he isn’t really a striker ?‍♂️

Just like City - we don’t play with a traditional striker hence why Firmino is far from the “weakest” when he is prob one of the best in that role in the league

I would have thought after 5 years now people would understand the role that he plays
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The conversation at the time was about goalscorers. Not what else strikers bring to the game.

I have already conceded he helps facilitate your style. Butbstill belove you could play just as well without him. Something you quite often do with Jota.
 
Papas1982 said:
The conversation at the time was about goalscorers. Not what else strikers bring to the game.

I have already conceded he helps facilitate your style. Butbstill belove you could play just as well without him. Something you quite often do with Jota.
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Agreed. I think it is very unlikely that the success of Liverpool heavily relies in what Firminho brings to the team. He plays a good role within the team, but he would be pretty easily replaced. I'd also say Mane could be replaced without much stress.

However, I suspect if Liverpool lost Salah or Vin Dijk, that would be a massive blow to them, they'd be very difficult to replace. Arguably TAA as well for his crossing ability.
 
Swango1980 said:
I completely believe that is a fair point, well certainly pre Ole in terms of pissing money up the wall. Transfers since have been better, though prices often inflated when clubs as rich as United bid for a player.

The point you make is backing up my view however in this specific discussion. We rely on players like Ronaldo and Bruno, to make up for shambolic team play. When people try and say "Ronaldo is the problem" it is almost laughable, as ridiculous as me trying to tell Liverpool fans Fowler was the problem in the 90's.

United have, quite possible, the best No. 9 in the world, even at 36. I loved Ruud Van Nistlerooy, yet I still believe Ronaldo is just an absolute genius of a footballer. That is one massive tick in terms of what every good football team needs, or at least would love. If a team performs worse after getting such a player, especially when that player is producing the goods, to me it has nothing to do with that player making the team worse. It is a massive stain on the manager for being unable to get anywhere near the potential of that team. But, as I said and others to, performance wise we were pretty damn poor last year as well, and largely got away with it. So, we may actually not be worse at all than last year generally, it is just we have made slightly less comebacks, whilst Liverpool and Chelsea have improved hugely.
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Inflated prices always happens when big clubs come in for players, not just yernited.

It's also not coincidental that since Ronaldo has turned up at OT, Fernandes' performances have been below par.

Ronaldo isn't a #9 like RVN or Any of the real out an out #9's we've seen in the past, he's a luxurious free role type of player with lots of ability and magic.
 
Stuart_C said:
Inflated prices always happens when big clubs come in for players, not just yernited.

It's also not coincidental that since Ronaldo has turned up at OT, Fernandes' performances have been below par.

Ronaldo isn't a #9 like RVN or Any of the real out an out #9's we've seen in the past, he's a luxurious free role type of player with lots of ability and magic.
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Firstly, that is why I said rich clubs like United, not just United. Though, as United are richer than most, other teams lick their lips about how much money may come their way.

Also, Ronaldo is not a #9 like anyone else. He is much much better, but he is playing the #9 role and there is no one better to play there for us for the next 2-3 years.

Bruno's performances dipped long before Ronaldo showed up. He was unbelievable when he first turned up. However, he has had many frustrating games since, along with the rest of the team. However, he still ends up contributing to goals in games, so it often masks his general performance. If United win, the highlights reel is often favourable to Bruno. If they don't, he maybe doesn't look so effective. Not really his fault, the midfielders / wingers around him cannot work with him to keep the ball moving and controlling the tempo of a game, so it is often up to.him to try and pull some magic out of the bag. However, I certainly do not agree Bruno's performances have dipped compared to last season
 
What's happened to Homer? Haven't seen him post anything for ages. I'm watching the FA Cup game and we've got a lad called Sylvester Jasper on loan from Fulham who looks like he could be a decent prospect.
 
Papas1982 said:
Ahem,

RVP won the league for Fergies final season. Unless you believe that squad was decent…..

I agree that a good system can be as important. Liverpool for example have played some of the best footy for the last 5 years with arguably the weakest actual striker. But most good teams would still improve if they had a 30 goal a season player.
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Correct and will no doubt be many other examples of a title winning team having a high scorer - I've already alluded to that, but my main point is that a high scoring striker doesnt necessarily mean that one equals the other.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Very much agree with this. The problem, there are a few, with lumping all of your eggs in one basket with one player is what happens when that player has an off day, gets marked out of the game etc. How does the team respond when their default is to point everything towards that one player and that player is not scoring in that match?

Lineker was a great for us but we were better as a team with the combination of Gray / Sharp or Sharp / Heath.
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Exactly.
 
Swango1980 said:
But, what would it matter if it was about "balance"

Last season Salah got 22, Mane 11 and Firmino 9 in the Premier League. That is a total of 42 goals. So, if Ronaldo played instead of Firmino, what would it matter if Ronaldo go 20, Salah 15 and Mane 7? It is still 42 goals for the team.

However, in reality, I could see Ronaldo getting at least 30 in Liverpools team. Even if that means Salah and Mane got a little less, say 18 and 7 goals, that is still 55 goals, 13 more than last season. And, in actual fact, would Ronaldo not put more fear into opposition defences, and along with being a better player than Firminho actually create MORE opportunities for Salah and Mane to score?

Look back to the Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney trio, who scored 57 goals in 07-08 PL and 79 in all competitions. They all benefited each other. So, although Ronaldo plays in a different position now, he is still a hell of a player and I personally think he would make Liverpool immensely better. The thought actually makes me feel ill.
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No doubt Ronaldo in our front 3 would increase HIS goal scoring figures, but how much might it transfer into results due to the press potentially not working which I think everyone would agree is our biggest weapon.

Hasn't Ronaldo increased the goalscoring stat of your prime striker for this season - I would think absolutely.

However:-

Has Fernandes figures gone down?

Are results suffering?

Has your league position suffered?

Goals are one of the biggest metrics, but they arent the be all and end all.
 
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