The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

Absolutely the manager takes overall responsibility, not doubting that, but are you really suggesting Ole is somehow removing the ability of these players to speak and see? Just look at the lack of communication between Maquire and Shaw that led to the one of the goals.

Maybe someone can explain how Scholes and Keane slagging him off helps and who is the manager you think can do what Tuchel did.

Why? Simply because I enjoy what others opinions are on my team, especially the likes of Keane and Scholes who I have huge respect for. I also enjoy listening to the oponion of others, even Carragher, and I've no gripe with a Liverpool fan who like to hear Carraghers opinion on Liverpool side. We are on this forum discussing Utd because we've an interest in each others opinions, or at least debate them.

Why do you even care about what WE have to say, by coming on this forum and criticising who we like to hear from? I also never said crtisicm will HELP United, simply that I was interested in hearing what they have to say. It is why TV channels employ such people. Unless you think these ex players should be praising United? In my opinion, both are probably spot on.

The manager needs to go, but I would not be disappointed to see the back of Pogba. He has had plenty of time to become a shining light in the4 squad, yet big question marks always exist. I think the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Martial and even Bruno have terrible body language now, and look disinterested in games when things go badly. I worry they'll turn out to be like Pogba, but I feel their attitude is more to do with "we are shocking, we should not be this bad, we have no idea how to fix it, we are running about like headless chickens".

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Your assessment is extremely flawed. I spoke of 2 ex players, but I could highlight nearly every pundit in the football world if you want. The performance was shocking and Ole is firmly to blame. This is not a one off performance. This is week in, week out. Before Atlanta game Ole said we were playing 4-2-4 and I panicked. Sure enough, we were battered in 1st half, and lucky to get back in it in second half. We then played the same side against Liverpool, and I was deflated.

Yes, the players have been awful, the work ethic terrible. But there is absolutely zero chance you'd get the same work ethic if a great manager was in charge.

And, for your bit on bold, this is EXACTLY why the management is responsible. You cannot expect individual players to figure it out themselves. You see Ronaldo quickly going to press the keeper, then looking back and his team mates behind him have not pressed, or worse still, have tried to press, not got there and left a massive amount of space behind them. You watch Magure try to take charge and cut out a ball, then realise one/two/three of his team mates have had the same idea. Suddenly they all get in each others way and leave acres of space behind them. This is why any team, no matter how good the players are, need good coaching. So that they know where they need to be from a team perspective, and how to work together. Instead, Utd have a massive case of "the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing"

What assessment? Of you or the game, if it’s of me reading what you posted then you need to re-read the initial post I answered, ie “On reflection of yesterday, my 2 main thoughts:”

You didn’t mention nearly every pundit, just 2! But again I’ll ask, who cares what the pundits think? You even mentioned Roy Keane during the game yesterday! Are his thoughts really that important to you?

Once those players get on the pitch they have to take responsibility for their own actions, regardless of how wrong the set up or tactics are, you can’t keep putting everything on Ole and then saying it’s his fault because Maquire and Shaw are steady for England.

 

[Billysboots]

Absolutely the manager takes overall responsibility, not doubting that, but are you really suggesting Ole is somehow removing the ability of these players to speak and see? Just look at the lack of communication between Maquire and Shaw that led to the one of the goals.

I won’t say again what Swango has very eloquently written, other than to say it is obvious to anyone watching that the players, especially the back four, are clearly mired in confusion. They don’t know whether to stick or twist. And that is a direct result of the coaching.

I agree there will always be an element of players sorting issues during a game themselves, but the same failings have been evident for an eternity. That can only be down to a lack of direction from the coaching staff.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Why? Simply because I enjoy what others opinions are on my team, especially the likes of Keane and Scholes who I have huge respect for. I also enjoy listening to the oponion of others, even Carragher, and I've no gripe with a Liverpool fan who like to hear Carraghers opinion on Liverpool side. We are on this forum discussing Utd because we've an interest in each others opinions, or at least debate them.

Why do you even care about what WE have to say, by coming on this forum and criticising who we like to hear from? I also never said crtisicm will HELP United, simply that I was interested in hearing what they have to say. It is why TV channels employ such people. Unless you think these ex players should be praising United? In my opinion, both are probably spot on.

The manager needs to go, but I would not be disappointed to see the back of Pogba. He has had plenty of time to become a shining light in the4 squad, yet big question marks always exist. I think the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Martial and even Bruno have terrible body language now, and look disinterested in games when things go badly. I worry they'll turn out to be like Pogba, but I feel their attitude is more to do with "we are shocking, we should not be this bad, we have no idea how to fix it, we are running about like headless chickens".

Because on reflection of yesterdays game, if I was a fan of Utd and you, I’d of probably just typed the last paragraph above.

I also very much enjoy the pundits and getting their insight, good or bad, but 24hrs after a mauling to my biggest rival I can assure you, one of my two MAIN thoughts wouldn’t be what ex-players think.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

What assessment? Of you or the game, if it’s of me reading what you posted then you need to re-read the initial post I answered, ie “On reflection of yesterday, my 2 main thoughts:”

You didn’t mention nearly every pundit, just 2! But again I’ll ask, who cares what the pundits think? You even mentioned Roy Keane during the game yesterday! Are his thoughts really that important to you?

Once those players get on the pitch they have to take responsibility for their own actions, regardless of how wrong the set up or tactics are, you can’t keep putting everything on Ole and then saying it’s his fault because Maquire and Shaw are steady for England.

I'd have loved to have seen/heard Keanes view, it would've been epic with him and Souey.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I won’t say again what Swango has very eloquently written, other than to say it is obvious to anyone watching that the players, especially the back four, are clearly mired in confusion. They don’t know whether to stick or twist. And that is a direct result of the coaching.

I agree there will always be an element of players sorting issues during a game themselves, but the same failings have been evident for an eternity. That can only be down to a lack of direction from the coaching staff.

I get that mate, but as I put in my initial response to him, I was bewildered what his 2 main thoughts were, not the players attitudes or effort etc.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I'd have loved to have seen/heard Keanes view, it would've been epic with him and Souey.

Me too, but neither of us are Utd fans 24hrs later still hanging out for what he thinks.
24hrs later I be more worried about the next game and how they pick themselves up.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'd have loved to have seen/heard Keanes view, it would've been epic with him and Souey.

I'm not sure Keane would have been able to put a sentence together. He would have just spoken odd words but not joined them together. I love it when he gets incandessant. The dream would be Souness, Keane and then to have Micah Richards sat giggling in the corner. I can just watch him laughing at Keane getting angry, it's like Gogglebox.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Ive got a feeling I'm going to have a great week??

@Swango1980 would you like to retract your post that Shaw is better than Robertson?

We're all guilty of getting it wrong, just not as spectacularly wrong as you?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Me too, but neither of us are Utd fans 24hrs later still hanging out for what he thinks.
24hrs later I be more worried about the next game and how they pick themselves up.

Generally I take what all pundits say with a pinch of salt but we all know how ruthless Keane is. More importantly though, Ole is his mate. Would he have thrown him under the bus?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Same ref;

And it's not the only time.

As for Ronaldo, if this isn't a red;

then why was this?

And they wonder why fans think there is an agenda.

We can all find decisions that's gone against us that are similar.

I don't want to see players sent off willy nilly but we also want consistency with decisions.

Unfortunately it's almost impossible for the same ref to give the same decision week in week out

They're not robots, it's human nature I suppose.

What the PGMOL need to stop doing is putting refs in awkward positions.

I think a non local ref sends Ronaldo off.

 

[Swango1980]

Me too, but neither of us are Utd fans 24hrs later still hanging out for what he thinks.
24hrs later I be more worried about the next game and how they pick themselves up.

The 1st point I made sums everything else up. My lack of faith in the manager, and how that impacts on everything else you mention. If I was to start questioning the manager, each individual player, the dinner lady, etc, after every single bad performance then at minimum I'd have no choice but to conclude we need to not only get rid of the manager, but virtually all the playing squad and any other staff members that are not pulling their weight. As a Utd fan, also, I've been questioning individual players for years. So, I do not need to have them at the forefront of my mind after every poor performance. My 1st point simply explained that as far as I'm concerned, Ole is absolutely out of his depth. He is the biggest problem at Utd. If we had a manager we had faith in, then we could then start questioning players again, however much of the attitude of players is down to Ole.

My second point was simply saying that, on a personal level, I'd have loved to have heard Roy Keane's opinion at half-time / full-time. I'm clearly not the only one, it looked like it was viral on twitter yesterday. And discussed much on Utd fan forums.

 

[Swango1980]

Ive got a feeling I'm going to have a great week??

@Swango1980 would you like to retract your post that Shaw is better than Robertson?

We're all guilty of getting it wrong, just not as spectacularly wrong as you?

Haha, in all honesty, how can I make such an assessment at the moment when Shaw is playing in a side well and truly inept in tactics. It would be like saying Robertson is better than Shaw at football, because I saw Shaw play snooker and he was awful. My personal opinion, I'd rather have Shaw than Robertson. If Robertson was a Utd player at the moment, he'd look horrific. It is not like he could come into that side and we'd be much better defensively. The entire defensive unit does not exist (all 11 players as well, not just the back 4). They are all trying to figure it out themselves without any idea what their team mates are doing.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

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[Tashyboy]

What makes me chuckle was the suggestion Maureen would do a lot better. the first season Maureen and Pep went head to head in the Prem there nothing to choose between the squads. I said to my lad “ Pep inspires and coaches players, Maureen leaves player out to dry”. What happened. Would pep, Klopp, Tuchel, poch improve Utd. Would Olé improve City, Liverpool , PSG, Chelsea. Not a cat in hells chance. If Utd get out of the group stages of the champs league they could be on the end of a proper hiding.

 

[Tashyboy]

Would love to see stats for yardages covered by the Utd players.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Generally I take what all pundits say with a pinch of salt but we all know how ruthless Keane is. More importantly though, Ole is his mate. Would he have thrown him under the bus?

How can you throw someone under the bus, if they are at the wheel of said bus?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Haha, in all honesty, how can I make such an assessment at the moment when Shaw is playing in a side well and truly inept in tactics. It would be like saying Robertson is better than Shaw at football, because I saw Shaw play snooker and he was awful. My personal opinion, I'd rather have Shaw than Robertson. If Robertson was a Utd player at the moment, he'd look horrific. It is not like he could come into that side and we'd be much better defensively. The entire defensive unit does not exist (all 11 players as well, not just the back 4). They are all trying to figure it out themselves without any idea what their team mates are doing.

Oh come on Swango, you can do it, you'll feel better????

 

[Deleted member 1740]

How can you throw someone under the bus, if they are at the wheel of said bus?

It'd be like a fast and furious scene, keane wins obviously.

 

[MadAdey]

All United had to do in the summer was not spend all that money on a bench warmer and put htat effort into finding a holding Midfielder. You can't have 4 forwards that are not going ot chase back with 2 midfielders behind them that are not going ot stsay back. They needed a top class DM to hold the team together and help them get hte ball back.