The Footie Thread

[Bdill93]

Honestly, I personally think that is a horrific idea. You'd have a situation where a corner is wrongly given, or there is an offside leading to a corner. All the fans at home are aware of this, already seen the replay. Yet you have the ridiculous situation where the team are preparing to take the corner, and all the fans know at home that if a goal is scored it won't count. Imagine a Jiminez type skull fracture occuring from such a corner, when everybody at home knew that corner would never count anyway. If managers have seen the replay, they could just tell their defenders to not bother defending.

It takes so long to actually set up for one of these dead balls that in real time - the correct decision could have been passed to the ref anyway. Its not contentious like a foul, its fact - who did the ball touch last.

Imagine a Jiminez skull fracture from a corner for his team that wasnt actually a corner in the first place but a GK? Totally avoidable with the correct decision.

 

[Piece]

Gutted for Robert Lewandowski. Played the best football of his career in the last two years but doesn't have the worldwide gravitas that the other "names" have and thus misses out. I fear he has missed the boat and unjustly so.

 

[Swango1980]

Ronaldo is not really very likeable, on the pitch, I'm sure he is lovely off it (possibly ?), whereas Messi is. Messi is a team player, Ronaldo looks after number 1 first.

Now, the above should not come into the discussion but we are human and so it does.

Yes, I'm another in the Messi camp. Not only is he superb, they both are, but he brings the rest of the team into the game more than Ronaldo does and that gives him the edge for me.

As others have said though, the ignoring of the great midfielders and defenders of our time is embarrassing when this discussion comes up.

Not sure I agree. I think the simple fact is, in the UK, he played for Manchester United. He was absolutely huge for Manchester United, and a key part of their success. So, many people who do not support Manchester United enjoy to see them fail, especially if they are fans of highly supported clubs like Liverpool. That, for me, is why many fans take an extra dislike to him in the UK. Probably a big part as to why a lot of fans dislike Sterling. I know race is often mentioned, and potentially part of it, but he effectively abandoned Liverpool, and so that is a huge number of fans that dislike him. On top of that, another huge number of fans, from Man Utd, also will tend to dislike him because he played for Liverpool and is now at City.

Football is tribal. If Messi had played for Man Utd, there is no doubt a lot of UK fans would have a big dislike towards him as well.

If you take tribalism away, what is there to dislike about Ronaldo? Does he bite people? Does he spit at people? Does he get sent off frequently? Does he get into trouble outside football? No, he has just scored an insane number of goals throughout his career, and potentially worked harder than any other footballer in the history of the game to achieve what he has done. He is also, in my opinion, more of a leader than Messi, as he is not afraid to communicate with his team.

Messi has always had the team advantage in that he grew up at Barcelona, and they trained all the young guys in a very specific way. By the time he got into the first team, the team performances from everyone were simply second nature. I think what Barcelona built when Messi was breaking through was unbelievable, and it made all their players shine.

 

[Swango1980]

It takes so long to actually set up for one of these dead balls that in real time - the correct decision could have been passed to the ref anyway. Its not contentious like a foul, its fact - who did the ball touch last.

Imagine a Jiminez skull fracture from a corner for his team that wasnt actually a corner in the first place but a GK? Totally avoidable with the correct decision.

I thought you said you'd only reverse the decision if a goal was scored, thus it does not matter how long it takes to take the corner, it will be taken anyway?

If a goal kick was awarded when it should have been a corner, would you get VAR to reverse the decision?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not sure I agree. I think the simple fact is, in the UK, he played for Manchester United. He was absolutely huge for Manchester United, and a key part of their success. So, many people who do not support Manchester United enjoy to see them fail, especially if they are fans of highly supported clubs like Liverpool. That, for me, is why many fans take an extra dislike to him in the UK. Probably a big part as to why a lot of fans dislike Sterling. I know race is often mentioned, and potentially part of it, but he effectively abandoned Liverpool, and so that is a huge number of fans that dislike him. On top of that, another huge number of fans, from Man Utd, also will tend to dislike him because he played for Liverpool and is now at City.

Football is tribal. If Messi had played for Man Utd, there is no doubt a lot of UK fans would have a big dislike towards him as well.

If you take tribalism away, what is there to dislike about Ronaldo? Does he bite people? Does he spit at people? Does he get sent off frequently? Does he get into trouble outside football? No, he has just scored an insane number of goals throughout his career, and potentially worked harder than any other footballer in the history of the game to achieve what he has done. He is also, in my opinion, more of a leader than Messi, as he is not afraid to communicate with his team.

Messi has always had the team advantage in that he grew up at Barcelona, and they trained all the young guys in a very specific way. By the time he got into the first team, the team performances from everyone were simply second nature. I think what Barcelona built when Messi was breaking through was unbelievable, and it made all their players shine.

My dislike of Ronaldo isn’t down to him at one point playing for Man Utd

There is always a fine line between confidence and arrogance

Ronaldo whilst he is a massively talented player always seemed to be beyond arrogant, the way at times he acted like a baby on the pitch - the strops , the histronics - never seemed to have much humility when playing the game. But it no doubt made him as good as he is

And no manager dare substitute him or not start him - teddies everywhere

Monumental player - even bigger arrogant baby

 

[pokerjoke]

Anyway one thing we do know is Salah is nowhere near winning it.
Thought he was the best player in the world.
And don’t forget TAA is the best RB too.
Is it April the 1st

 

[Swango1980]

Kante 5th best player in the world. He'd good, but is he that good?

Mbappe only 9th, is his early potential waning?

Sterling 15th best player in the world. Really?

Neymar as far down as 16th, haha

Simon Kjaer 18th. I assume that is for his medical skills rather than football ability?

Mount 19th. Didn't see that, but shows how well he has done since breaking onto the scene

Absentees: No Virgil Van Dyke, who I would have thought was potentially the best CB in the world? No TAA, so I assume there are a few who do not believe he is the best RB in the world (Azpilicueta was on the list). Paul Pogba's agent will be furious he is not on the list, all that money spent on hair dye, and for what?

 

[Bdill93]

I thought you said you'd only reverse the decision if a goal was scored, thus it does not matter how long it takes to take the corner, it will be taken anyway?

If a goal kick was awarded when it should have been a corner, would you get VAR to reverse the decision?

Not only if goals are scored. And if I did say that - its not what I meant .You can work it in many ways. These are simple decisions that could take seconds.

Yes I would - you're denying a team a chance of scoring a goal from a set piece otherwise? If I support Burnley and we're against Man City - that corner could change a game?

All im after is the right decision. Not opinions on stuff - just fact. Whoever touched the ball last isnt up for debate - its black and white. Way easier to officiate than offside.

If a decision takes a while - then of course on occasion a corner may be taken and then ruled off - as goals are now - but with the simple nature of "who touched it last" these decisons should take no time at all.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Isn’t the Ballon d’or just who Barca/Real Madrid want/love?
Lets be honest, until they stop playing or are 6 feet under they will still be awarding it to Messi or Ronaldo

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Kante 5th best player in the world. He'd good, but is he that good?

Mbappe only 9th, is his early potential waning?

Sterling 15th best player in the world. Really?

Neymar as far down as 16th, haha

Simon Kjaer 18th. I assume that is for his medical skills rather than football ability?

Mount 19th. Didn't see that, but shows how well he has done since breaking onto the scene

Absentees: No Virgil Van Dyke, who I would have thought was potentially the best CB in the world? No TAA, so I assume there are a few who do not believe he is the best RB in the world (Azpilicueta was on the list). Paul Pogba's agent will be furious he is not on the list, all that money spent on hair dye, and for what?

Van Dyke didn’t return from injury until 8th August, so ineligible I’d of thought.

 

[Swango1980]

Not only if goals are scored. And if I did say that - its not what I meant .You can work it in many ways. These are simple decisions that could take seconds.

Yes I would - you're denying a team a chance of scoring a goal from a set piece otherwise? If I support Burnley and we're against Man City - that corner could change a game?

All im after is the right decision. Not opinions on stuff - just fact. Whoever touched the ball last isnt up for debate - its black and white. Way easier to officiate than offside.

If a decision takes a while - then of course on occasion a corner may be taken and then ruled off - as goals are now - but with the simple nature of "who touched it last" these decisons should take no time at all.

I guess you would like to move towards VAR essentially moving towards making all decisions then. Whether it is a corner or not, whether it is a throw in or not, etc. Maybe one day we will get towards that, where essentially there is no need for a ref on the pitch, except for maybe communicating the VARs decision to players.

But, I think it is just completely sterilising the game. And, it creates a bigger gulf between top level football and lower leagues, who'd not have the money to implement the tech.

Pre VAR, was football broken? Despite all the bad decisions that were made, did that result in a loss of fans? Does VAR bring more fans to the game? I seriously doubt it. But, I guess football is less about fans these days

 

[Swango1980]

Van Dyke didn’t return from injury until 8th August, so ineligible I’d of thought.

Good point, forgot about that injury.

Mind you, I always felt the Ballon d'Or was simply awarded to the best player in the world. The player that, if you were to set up a team tomorrow for the next few months, the one player you would want more than anyone else.

Now, I agree, some may want Messi still, and others would want Ronaldo also. How many fans / teams would pick Jorginho as the one player they'd want in their side? I'd doubt it would be many. I bet more teams would rather have Salah, VVD, DE Bruyne, etc.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Kante 5th best player in the world. He'd good, but is he that good?

Mbappe only 9th, is his early potential waning?

Sterling 15th best player in the world. Really?

Neymar as far down as 16th, haha

Simon Kjaer 18th. I assume that is for his medical skills rather than football ability?

Mount 19th. Didn't see that, but shows how well he has done since breaking onto the scene

Absentees: No Virgil Van Dyke, who I would have thought was potentially the best CB in the world? No TAA, so I assume there are a few who do not believe he is the best RB in the world (Azpilicueta was on the list). Paul Pogba's agent will be furious he is not on the list, all that money spent on hair dye, and for what?

VVD was out injured most of the year

At the end of the day the award shortlist is decided by one French football magazine , and then more journalists vote from that shortlist

It’s been very weighted away from the Premier league and especially highlighted La Liga etc

There will be a lot of reactionary stuff in there like Kjaer for example

I’m not sure why it got as highly rated as it did - it used to be the European Footballer of the Year and it was a nice award but Messi and Ronaldo seem to have elevated it up

If it was voted by the players ( like the PFA POTY ) then I suspect it might hold more value

For the last couple of months Salah has been out of this world and it’s a giggle that he is 7th , Sterling in there is amusing as are some others - Kane ??

 

[Bdill93]

I guess you would like to move towards VAR essentially moving towards making all decisions then. Whether it is a corner or not, whether it is a throw in or not, etc. Maybe one day we will get towards that, where essentially there is no need for a ref on the pitch, except for maybe communicating the VARs decision to players.

But, I think it is just completely sterilising the game. And, it creates a bigger gulf between top level football and lower leagues, who'd not have the money to implement the tech.

Pre VAR, was football broken? Despite all the bad decisions that were made, did that result in a loss of fans? Does VAR bring more fans to the game? I seriously doubt it. But, I guess football is less about fans these days

I guess thats where I'm going yeah. I think there is always a place for an on field ref, but tech needs to be used to help referees see what the naked eye cant. With the money in football - these decisions can cost teams millions of pounds. (EG - the ghost goal against villa two seasons ago)

Id argue it was broken pre-VAR - I remember almost every day on talk sport callers ringing up moaning about refs and calling for VAR to be intorduced - now we moan about VAR.. I suppose we will always moan!

They have improved the offside rulings though this season - thats for sure! A step in the right direction. You dont hear many complaints about it either.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Sad to see John Sillett has died. A great character in the game https://www.skysports.com/football/...-fa-cup-winning-manager-dies-at-the-age-of-85

 

[Swango1980]

I guess thats where I'm going yeah. I think there is always a place for an on field ref, but tech needs to be used to help referees see what the naked eye cant. With the money in football - these decisions can cost teams millions of pounds. (EG - the ghost goal against villa two seasons ago)

Id argue it was broken pre-VAR - I remember almost every day on talk sport callers ringing up moaning about refs and calling for VAR to be intorduced - now we moan about VAR.. I suppose we will always moan!

They have improved the offside rulings though this season - thats for sure! A step in the right direction. You dont hear many complaints about it either.

Certainly improved the farce that it was. So, less complaints about the decision being right or wrong.

But, as I mentioned previously, for me it takes away the pure joy of my team scoring in the moment. I am more often than not expecting a VAR review on a potential marginal offside. So, unless my team score a screamer, or a solo goal, where offside is barely likely, then I remain quite calm, and then it is more a feeling of relief when the game is kicked off again and goal awarded.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Sad to see John Sillett has died. A great character in the game https://www.skysports.com/football/...-fa-cup-winning-manager-dies-at-the-age-of-85

That cup final was one of the last great ones. Great characters, fashionable v unfashionable, cracking match and a wonderful diving header. John Sillett's grin and happiness after winning will stick with all who saw it.

(the romanticism is partly because there was precious other live football but even so it was a cracker and he came across as a likeable and big character)

 

[Bdill93]

Certainly improved the farce that it was. So, less complaints about the decision being right or wrong.

But, as I mentioned previously, for me it takes away the pure joy of my team scoring in the moment. I am more often than not expecting a VAR review on a potential marginal offside. So, unless my team score a screamer, or a solo goal, where offside is barely likely, then I remain quite calm, and then it is more a feeling of relief when the game is kicked off again and goal awarded.

I dont mean to come across as a "if you attended the games" type of guy - but if you did, I think you'd realise it doesnt ruin football in the ground. We still have absolute limbs after the ball hits the back of the net. I realise in the modern day, not many fans are like me - travelling up and down the country every weekend is a big commitment and I myself will slow down with this soon as my son is due very soon!

I think some teams may face it more often than others too - in my head I am thinking Vardy must be caught a few times a season due to the nature of his game playing off the last man. You dont often see reviews of man city goals that have been built up by passing around the box.

You know if a goal is contentious or not, and you celebrate accordingly.

When at home watching on TV the additonal camera angles start beign shown etc - it does cast doubt, but thats down to the media outlets and what they want to show you. I will also note - they no longer show this on screens in the ground either.

Different experiences for different fans isnt great though. But the right decision is always needed.

 

[Swango1980]

I dont mean to come across as a "if you attended the games" type of guy - but if you did, I think you'd realise it doesnt ruin football in the ground. We still have absolute limbs after the ball hits the back of the net. I realise in the modern day, not many fans are like me - travelling up and down the country every weekend is a big commitment and I myself will slow down with this soon as my son is due very soon!

I think some teams may face it more often than others too - in my head I am thinking Vardy must be caught a few times a season due to the nature of his game playing off the last man. You dont often see reviews of man city goals that have been built up by passing around the box.

You know if a goal is contentious or not, and you celebrate accordingly.

When at home watching on TV the additonal camera angles start beign shown etc - it does cast doubt, but thats down to the media outlets and what they want to show you. I will also note - they no longer show this on screens in the ground either.

Different experiences for different fans isnt great though. But the right decision is always needed.

I can't speak for those that attend the games week in week out, though I've heard plenty of criticism from those that attend matches. Whether that is still the case, or game going fans agree with you is not for me to say.

But, the so called "arm chair fan" is key to the game, in that it is them that are making TV companies spend billions on the game, and in return opening the game to many more people that would never get a chance to go and see a game. So, it is crucial that VAR does not dampen their emotional attachment to the game. If it just starts becoming more sterile, there will become a point it will be difficult to entice more people to the game. It is not just VAR I'd add, there are probably other factors as well, such as changing of the rules and rewarding players that fall over under minimal contact (which there seems to be a philosophy of doing that less this season by officials)

 

[Liverbirdie]

Anyway one thing we do know is Salah is nowhere near winning it.
Thought he was the best player in the world.
And don’t forget TAA is the best RB too.
Is it April the 1st

Dont forget to add Pokerjoke in sensible post shocker to that list.