The Footie Thread

[clubchamp98]

What would you call it then? Stifled your pointless ticky-takka, marauded through the massive holes in your midfield and dominated totally at set pieces. ?‍

Possibly but I was answering “outplayed” which we were certainly not.

 

[clubchamp98]

A genuine attempt to block the ball is not to bottle it and turn your back, if he can’t see Agbonna then he’s not in control.

The Cresswell challenge I thought was red at the time because he was not in control and we’ve seen red cards given for that. Imo, it was early in the game and he was putting a marker down, I thought VAR helped him stay on by showing his foot bounced off the ball.

How can they explain the Holgate one then ?
He got the ball!

 

[clubchamp98]

So let me get this right, Jota is ok to raise his arm, but Ogbonna cannot. Glad we cleared that up.?

No both were fouls.

 

[clubchamp98]

What the vid again, the elbow is late imo.

Anyway, that’s when it would of been 10 aside for me.

Roll on the Internationals this week.

Don’t know why I have to watch the vid.
I have stated quite clearly he was lucky not to get sent off.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

How can they explain the Holgate one then ?
He got the ball!

DERMOT'S VERDICT: "I think I am in the minority but I don't think it is a red card. I don't think it is a red card because at the point of contact I don't think he catches him like we saw [Mason] Holgate did. I think if the referee gives a free-kick and a yellow card, I don't think it gets ramped up and thrown to the VAR like it was. In isolation, I think that should have been a yellow card."

DERMOT'S VERDICT: "I think it is a good goal. I don't think Ogbonna has done anything wrong, really. He leaps for the ball and he's in front. Alisson comes into Ogbonna's space rather than the other way around. For me, I cannot see how it is a foul. I think the ref is quite right to give that on the field and I think the VAR was right not to ask him to review it."


We moan for years that refs don't explain their decisions.. now we have var and they do and have ex refs giving their explanation as to why it's happened

But nope the fans know best

 

[clubchamp98]

Winning the ball hasn’t been a thing for about 30 years.

According to some on here because Cresswell got a touch on the ball it’s ok to clatter Henderson on the knee.

 

[clubchamp98]

DERMOT'S VERDICT: "I think I am in the minority but I don't think it is a red card. I don't think it is a red card because at the point of contact I don't think he catches him like we saw [Mason] Holgate did. I think if the referee gives a free-kick and a yellow card, I don't think it gets ramped up and thrown to the VAR like it was. In isolation, I think that should have been a yellow card."

DERMOT'S VERDICT: "I think it is a good goal. I don't think Ogbonna has done anything wrong, really. He leaps for the ball and he's in front. Alisson comes into Ogbonna's space rather than the other way around. For me, I cannot see how it is a foul. I think the ref is quite right to give that on the field and I think the VAR was right not to ask him to review it."


We moan for years that refs don't explain their decisions.. now we have var and they do and have ex refs giving their explanation as to why it's happened

But nope the fans know best

The ref hasn’t explained it,
Dermots not a ref any more. And he was crap when he was.
If you want to really hear some rubbish listen to Peter Walton on BT.

If we didn’t have a view there would be nothing to discuss!

 

[Deleted member 21784]

The ref hasn’t explained it,
Dermots not a ref any more. And he was crap when he was.
If you want to really hear some rubbish listen to Peter Walton on BT.

If we didn’t have a view there would be nothing to discuss!

As posted earlier.

VAR referee Stuart Attwell claims Aaron Cresswell was not sent off for his tackle on Jordan Henderson in West Ham’s 3-2 win over Liverpool because the challenge ‘didn’t have the required force or intensity’.

So one of the refs involved has explained it.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

How can they explain the Holgate one then ?
He got the ball!

Holgate cleared the ball with full contact and carried on straight legged, awful tackle!

Like I said I thought watching it live Cresswell was the same, however on the VAR review it showed Cresswell didn’t get clear contact on the ball and deflected into Henderson.

I still think Cresswell was lucky and Holgate got what he deserved.

 

[Hobbit]

As posted earlier.

VAR referee Stuart Attwell claims Aaron Cresswell was not sent off for his tackle on Jordan Henderson in West Ham’s 3-2 win over Liverpool because the challenge ‘didn’t have the required force or intensity’.

So one of the refs involved has explained it.

Does the ref know the required force, and does he carry a strain gauge to measure the force that’s been applied? No he doesn’t. The level of force required to break a tibia, in a healthy adult, is around 220lbs. If a player weighs 170lbs, it doesn’t take much momentum to generate 220lbs.

Over the top tackles, like scissor tackles, should carry an automatic red card. If players are aware of that they will be more careful, more in control.

In the tackle that ended Harvey Elliot’s season it was the trailing leg that caught him, not the leg the tackler used to reach the ball. Pretty damn close to a scissor tackle…

 

[Neilds]

I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Does the ref know the required force, and does he carry a strain gauge to measure the force that’s been applied? No he doesn’t. The level of force required to break a tibia, in a healthy adult, is around 220lbs. If a player weighs 170lbs, it doesn’t take much momentum to generate 220lbs.

Over the top tackles, like scissor tackles, should carry an automatic red card. If players are aware of that they will be more careful, more in control.

In the tackle that ended Harvey Elliot’s season it was the trailing leg that caught him, not the leg the tackler used to reach the ball. Pretty damn close to a scissor tackle…

Fact is we wouldn't even still be hearing about this tackle if Liverpool hadn't lost..

The two match officials agreed on a decision and no retrospective action is to be taken

Therefore it should be enough to draw a line under it

However klopp just used it as one of his excuses for the game

In reality he was let down 3 times by his keeper and his midfield played poorly

 

[Swango1980]

I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!

Especially when they are so adamant that is was 100% the wrong decision, and blissfully ignoring the considerable number of people that disagree with them. If they believe it was a red, fair enough. But if many disagree, by definition it is not a clear mistake by the ref.

It is a perfect example of a challenge where, if you see the still it is a clear red card. If you actually see the challenge, and even the slow mo, it is not a red (in my opinion).

At end of day, who cares? Liverpool are a better team than West Ham, but West Ham were better than Liverpool on the day and deserved to win. They showed Man Utd how to play against Liverpool at home, and the 5-0 win certainly wasn't an indicator as to how good Liverpool are, but how dreadful Utd are. West Ham look a good unit at the moment, would be nice to see them continue with the good form.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Especially when they are so adamant that is was 100% the wrong decision, and blissfully ignoring the considerable number of people that disagree with them. If they believe it was a red, fair enough. But if many disagree, by definition it is not a clear mistake by the ref.

It is a perfect example of a challenge where, if you see the still it is a clear red card. If you actually see the challenge, and even the slow mo, it is not a red (in my opinion).

At end of day, who cares? Liverpool are a better team than West Ham, but West Ham were better than Liverpool on the day and deserved to win. They showed Man Utd how to play against Liverpool at home, and the 5-0 win certainly wasn't an indicator as to how good Liverpool are, but how dreadful Utd are. West Ham look a good unit at the moment, would be nice to see them continue with the good form.

Or, this is a forum were people can debate, express an opinion, get wound up, tell happy stories, be educated, etc etc.

Armchair experts are seen in every thread on this forum but it only gets moaned about in the football thread. If people don’t like what’s being discussed they always have the option to move on.

 

[clubchamp98]

I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!

But isn’t that why VAR was introduced?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well - so have the rules changed on what football fans can now - discuss , complain , debate about ?

So we now can’t debate refs decisions ? And we have to believe them when they come out and justify themselves ?

Every decision that is made now is correct and there is no debate to be had because it’s backed up by the VAR and then an ex ref in the studio

And managers now it seems are prickly and say things to defend their teams in the press - it’s only started now it seems

And if your team loses and you can’t bring up poor decisions - line must be drawn under it

So the same football debate that’s been happening for decades can no longer happen ?‍

Is that the crux of it ?

 

[fundy]

Think people would just prefer more honesty, less hypocrisy and far less repetition, may just be me though.....

 

[Bdill93]

So Villa are now without a manager. Dean Smith was classy from the start to the end and I wish him all the best in the future. I was not one calling for his head - not my style.

I really have no idea where we go from here, there doesnt seem to be a lot of names out there that have prem experience.

Interesting that Gerrard hasnt yet ruled himself out, makes me think that there could be something there...

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So Villa are now without a manager. Dean Smith was classy from the start to the end and I wish him all the best in the future. I was not one calling for his head - not my style.

I really have no idea where we go from here, there doesnt seem to be a lot of names out there that have prem experience.

Interesting that Gerrard hasnt yet ruled himself out, makes me think that there could be something there...

I can't see you struggling for applications. You are well set up, stable, have a good squad. You are not a club in flux.

Do you think Smith was unlucky? He mentioned he was due back a number of injured players but I don't know enough about your team to know if that was just an excuse. As he did mention though, he left Villa stronger than when we arrived. No argument there.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Think people would just prefer more honesty, less hypocrisy and far less repetition, may just be me though.....

It’s football - when that happens in the sport itself then maybe it might filter down to the fans

Everyone is happy to point fingers at other teams but struggle to point them inwards

If the tables were turned on Sunday and it was West Ham who lost and the same decisions against West Ham players then it would be pages of West Ham fans

Mistakes still happen in the sport , wrong decisions still get made and people will still debate them

a number of Liverpool fans have even stated that West Ham deserved the win and the three points. There are fingers being pointed at Jota for his actions but then when they get pointed at Cresswell - oh no you can’t do that - the ref got it right there. So did he get it right for Jota then ?‍♂

As you say - hypocrisy , bias , all part of the sport and has been for decades