The Footie Thread

[Pin-seeker]

Well - so have the rules changed on what football fans can now - discuss , complain , debate about ?

So we now can’t debate refs decisions ? And we have to believe them when they come out and justify themselves ?

Every decision that is made now is correct and there is no debate to be had because it’s backed up by the VAR and then an ex ref in the studio

And managers now it seems are prickly and say things to defend their teams in the press - it’s only started now it seems

And if your team loses and you can’t bring up poor decisions - line must be drawn under it

So the same football debate that’s been happening for decades can no longer happen ?‍

Is that the crux of it ?

If the rules have changed you’ll find yourself with ALOT of spare time Phil ???

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Think people would just prefer more honesty, less hypocrisy and far less repetition, may just be me though.....

Repetition?? oh the irony ??

 

[Bdill93]

I can't see you struggling for applications. You are well set up, stable, have a good squad. You are not a club in flux.

Do you think Smith was unlucky? He mentioned he was due back a number of injured players but I don't know enough about your team to know if that was just an excuse. As he did mention though, he left Villa stronger than when we arrived. No argument there.

I think some bad luck - and some bad management.

We have resorted to long balling it to wingers who are 5.7" and 5.9" and thinking that will win us games... It got us absolutely nowhere. We are a football playing team and he seems to have lost that element.

Ings, Traore both injured at the moment - not really sure who else he thinks would make a significant difference to us though. Besides Ings no one out has banged in 15+ goals a season or creates 10+ so a weird statement from Dean.

He will always be remembered as a great manager who brought us back from the depths of the championship in my eyes - but he has never worked out how to play football/ win games without Jack, even when he was a villa player. Last year we won one when he was out injured, this year we have picked up on that same form really - despite key additions.

 

[Swango1980]

Well - so have the rules changed on what football fans can now - discuss , complain , debate about ?

So we now can’t debate refs decisions ? And we have to believe them when they come out and justify themselves ?

Every decision that is made now is correct and there is no debate to be had because it’s backed up by the VAR and then an ex ref in the studio

And managers now it seems are prickly and say things to defend their teams in the press - it’s only started now it seems

And if your team loses and you can’t bring up poor decisions - line must be drawn under it

So the same football debate that’s been happening for decades can no longer happen ?‍

Is that the crux of it ?

So, it is OK for some to tell the rest of us it was a certain red card. But, if others say it was not a certain red card, or simply not a red card at all, that is not allowed? The very fact we disagree means we are not allowing you to express your opinion?

From my perspective, the only issue I have is the absolute certainty that the ref got it wrong and bottled it. And, looking back on the pictures, we are told it was a clear red, as clear as night and day. Well, it is as clear as night and day, if we're in the North Pole and they roll into each other. I get the argument it could have been a red card, so I'm not so critical if that is ones opinion. But, when one starts to indicate it was so clear and obvious, the argument falls apart when so many people disagree with that point of view. It is like the Jota incident. I can see how that could have been a red card, however I can also see why it wasn't given. It is one of those that only the player knows what the intent was, it could have been a complete accident, we can only speculate.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

So, it is OK for some to tell the rest of us it was a certain red card. But, if others say it was not a certain red card, or simply not a red card at all, that is not allowed? The very fact we disagree means we are not allowing you to express your opinion?

From my perspective, the only issue I have is the absolute certainty that the ref got it wrong and bottled it. And, looking back on the pictures it was a clear red, as clear as night and day. Well, it is as clear as night and day, if we're in the North Pole and they roll into each other. I get the argument it could have been a red card, so I'm not so critical if that is ones opinion. But, when one starts to indicate it was so clear and obvious, the argument falls apart when so many people disagree with that point of view. It is like the Jota incident. I can see how that could have been a red card, however I can also see why it wasn't given. It is one of those that only the player knows what the intent was, it could have been a complete accident, we can only speculate.

You can see why Jota wasn't given because it's sly and you can't be without doubt that it wasn't an accident .. it's just a poor move from a snide player

Cresswell was a poor tackle , should have been foul and booking ref mucked up sent to var. They talk about it together and decide it's not a red

Can't give yellows by var so there we go

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So, it is OK for some to tell the rest of us it was a certain red card. But, if others say it was not a certain red card, or simply not a red card at all, that is not allowed? The very fact we disagree means we are not allowing you to express your opinion?

From my perspective, the only issue I have is the absolute certainty that the ref got it wrong and bottled it. And, looking back on the pictures it was a clear red, as clear as night and day. Well, it is as clear as night and day, if we're in the North Pole and they roll into each other. I get the argument it could have been a red card, so I'm not so critical if that is ones opinion. But, when one starts to indicate it was so clear and obvious, the argument falls apart when so many people disagree with that point of view. It is like the Jota incident. I can see how that could have been a red card, however I can also see why it wasn't given. It is one of those that only the player knows what the intent was, it could have been a complete accident, we can only speculate.

I believe you have missed the point ?‍

The point is that some are suggesting that people can’t express an opinion , that they should just draw a line under it and just go with that the ref has given ?

Debate all you want - that’s the whole idea and that shouldn’t be stifled

 

[Swango1980]

I believe you have missed the point ?‍

The point is that some are suggesting that people can’t express an opinion , that they should just draw a line under it and just go with that the ref has given ?

Debate all you want - that’s the whole idea and that shouldn’t be stifled

Can you highlight where someone has said you cannot express an opinion? Not being funny, I may well have missed that given all the back and forth.

Are you confusing someone disagreeing with you as suggesting you cannot have an opinion? When people use issues such as a ref, VAR and many pundits agreeing it probably was not a red card, they are simply using those to support their argument that it was not a clear red card. They are pretty reasonable things to use to support such a case. We all know that the ref and VAR do not always seem to back the majority decision, so it is not always cast iron proof. However, throw in the many pundits, and the opinions even in this forum, it all points towards this being a subjective call.

You may well believe it is a red card decision. Fine. I certainly will not suggest you cannot have that opinion. I also say if a red WAS given, I wouldn't say is was 100% the wrong call, even though my personal opinion was it wasn't a red. However, when it happened, I feared for Cresswell. Because I knew that even though I wouldn't give a red, there was a subjective argument it could be a red and that was up to the ref / VAR to decide.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Can you highlight where someone has said you cannot express an opinion? Not being funny, I may well have missed that given all the back and forth.

Are you confusing someone disagreeing with you as suggesting you cannot have an opinion? When people use issues such as a ref, VAR and many pundits agreeing it probably was not a red card, they are simply using those to support their argument that it was not a clear red card. They are pretty reasonable things to use to support such a case. We all know that the ref and VAR do not always seem to back the majority decision, so it is not always cast iron proof. However, throw in the many pundits, and the opinions even in this forum, it all points towards this being a subjective call.

You may well believe it is a red card decision. Fine. I certainly will say you cannot have that opinion. I also say if a red WAS given, I wouldn't say is was 100% the wrong call, even though my personal opinion was it wasn't a red. However, when it happened, I feared for Cresswell. Because I knew that even though I wouldn't give a red, there was a subjective argument it could be a red and that was up to the ref / VAR to decide.

He's just fishing, because I said we should draw a line under it as the ref has explained. Var has decided

Basically stop stating incorrect facts was My point

It's been explained

Klopp got his knickers in a twist

We go again in 2 weeks

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Can you highlight where someone has said you cannot express an opinion? Not being funny, I may well have missed that given all the back and forth.

Are you confusing someone disagreeing with you as suggesting you cannot have an opinion? When people use issues such as a ref, VAR and many pundits agreeing it probably was not a red card, they are
simply using those to support their argument that it was not a clear red card. They are pretty reasonable things to use to support such a case. We all know that the ref and VAR do not always seem to back the majority decision, so it is not always cast iron proof. However, throw in the many pundits, and the opinions even in this forum, it all points towards this being a subjective call.

You may well believe it is a red card decision. Fine. I certainly will not suggest you cannot have that opinion. I also say if a red WAS given, I wouldn't say is was 100% the wrong call, even though my personal opinion was it wasn't a red. However, when it happened, I feared for Cresswell. Because I knew that even though I wouldn't give a red, there was a subjective argument it could be a red and that was up to the ref / VAR to decide.

See post #17930

He's just fishing, because I said we should draw a line under it as the ref has explained. Var has decided

Basically stop stating incorrect facts was My point

It's been explained

Klopp got his knickers in a twist

We go again in 2 weeks

No he’s not, stop playing the poster.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

See post #17930


No he’s not, stop playing the poster.

In your opinion. I'll wait for VAR

 

[Orikoru]

I think some bad luck - and some bad management.

We have resorted to long balling it to wingers who are 5.7" and 5.9" and thinking that will win us games... It got us absolutely nowhere. We are a football playing team and he seems to have lost that element.

Ings, Traore both injured at the moment - not really sure who else he thinks would make a significant difference to us though. Besides Ings no one out has banged in 15+ goals a season or creates 10+ so a weird statement from Dean.

He will always be remembered as a great manager who brought us back from the depths of the championship in my eyes - but he has never worked out how to play football/ win games without Jack, even when he was a villa player. Last year we won one when he was out injured, this year we have picked up on that same form really - despite key additions.

Buendia and Bailey seemed like excellent signings, I thought they might sort of make up for Grealish a bit between them, two players to replace one, kind of thing. But they don't seem to have done much bar the odd game. Ings was obviously a great signing, but you're always going to get injuries with him - only reason he's not at a top club.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Looking forward to England qualifying for the WC this week, regardless of form I’d expect the following XI to start against Albania, barring any late injuries:

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maquire
Chillwell

Rice
Phillips
Foden
Grealish

Kane
Sterling

Wouldn’t be my first XI, but I don’t expect Southgate to make any changes.

 

[Swango1980]

See post #17930


No he’s not, stop playing the poster.

Post 17930 said:

"I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!"

Are you implying it is this post that states that people are not entitled to their opinion?

 

[Swango1980]

On another note related to the West Ham game, I saw the Antonio interview after the match. One of the rare player interviews where the player actually has a personality, and doesn't give robotic answers that he has learned to give match after match. Therefore, a rare player interview that is actually worth a watch.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Post 17930 said:

"I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!"

Are you implying it is this post that states that people are not entitled to their opinion?

Yes, it’s the one me, you and Phil responded to.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Fact is we wouldn't even still be hearing about this tackle if Liverpool hadn't lost..

The two match officials agreed on a decision and no retrospective action is to be taken

Therefore it should be enough to draw a line under it

However klopp just used it as one of his excuses for the game

In reality he was let down 3 times by his keeper and his midfield played poorly

Sorry @pauldj42 look at this post.. by myself "draw a line under" so no that's not the post involved .

 

[Bdill93]

Buendia and Bailey seemed like excellent signings, I thought they might sort of make up for Grealish a bit between them, two players to replace one, kind of thing. But they don't seem to have done much bar the odd game. Ings was obviously a great signing, but you're always going to get injuries with him - only reason he's not at a top club.

They probably could if they recieved the ball to feet from our midfielders. As apposed to the long ball from the CB over the top....

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So Villa are now without a manager. Dean Smith was classy from the start to the end and I wish him all the best in the future. I was not one calling for his head - not my style.

I really have no idea where we go from here, there doesnt seem to be a lot of names out there that have prem experience.

Interesting that Gerrard hasnt yet ruled himself out, makes me think that there could be something there...

I reckon it could be a job that Gerrard could look at

Villa are a stable squad , decent owners it seems , backed well and a decent fanbase

It’s certainly a job he could look at to prove himself on the next step up

Maybe John Terry could look at it

I certainly think it’s an attractive job

 

[Deleted member 21784]

https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2021/november/09-november/angelo-ogbonna-injury-update

Sad news. Always worrying when a player goes down when it's nothing has seemed to have happened

Not sure if it's same knee he had op on before

As someone who's had that op done he's out for a while

I hope Dawson and diop are ready .. there chance to shine .. most likely Dawson but diop needs to step up .. him and zouma have everything to be a top top partnership

Get well soon oggy

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....der-sustains-acl-injury-in-win-over-liverpool

Was very surprised that he still played on after - didn’t look comfortable , hopefully it’s not too serious

The knee certainly didn’t look good when he tried to turn with Salah