The Footie Thread

[clubchamp98]

Imagine Keane trying to manage Pogba & Lingard with their stupid celebrations & Tik Tok ?

Well I for one would like to see that fly on the wall documentary.
But when they are celebrating it means they have just scored

 

[Liverbirdie]

I accept that some decisions have a degree of opinion to them but there were three stonewall reds for me yesterday; Ronaldo's assault, Maguire (I believe) taking out a player clean through on goal, and Pogba which they eventually got right. Simply not good enough, and that was supposed to be our best referee.

Bang on, and that's why I hated going to OT as a Liverpool fan.

They were 90/10 red cards and each time the ref initially gave a yellow.

Pogba went with both feet, one over the ball and full force.

Macguire was last man, central and no-one on the cover. I dont care what Dermott Gallagher says about the ball not being under control for Jota, the ball was on its way at a perfect pace and would have been under his control a millisecond later.

Ronaldo's first kick looked like it connected with Curtis's hip (not the one when he was still standing up) and the other kick was pure malice with a soupcon of petulance thrown in, the ball being in the way is the only mitigating factor.

Fernandes and Freds were only yellows though.

 

[Liverbirdie]

In defence of one of the decisions yesterday (Maguire), Jota did not have control of the ball and there was a covering defender, therefore it was a foul and yellow card.

Who was on the cover? A phantom?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Who was on the cover? A phantom?

I think Wan Bissaka was in the box but it would have been a stretch for him to cut it off - imo it was a clear goal scoring opportunity and it was a bottle job , at 0-0 I reckon he gives it

 

[Liverbirdie]

I think Wan Bissaka was in the box but it would have been a stretch for him to cut it off - imo it was a clear goal scoring opportunity and it was a bottle job , at 0-0 I reckon he gives it

I think he was about 5 yards away, square on, he'd have not got even close.

Edit:Confirmed at least 5-6 yards away, and the angle of the pass into Jota shows he would have been even further away by the time Jota would have got it.

There was categorically no cover.

 

[Tashyboy]

Lol

Pep and Mourinho had similar squads?pull the other one.

Pep is a great coach. No doubt. But for me his legacy will always be that Barca side who had a group of generational talents. Would they have been as successful without him. Probably not, but then the Spanish team of that era did well without him being their coach.....

But since then he hasn't one a trophy that you'd not expect him too.

He banks the League Cup every year as you have more than 23 first team stars. At Bayern he arguably under achieved and has bottled the CL twice at City.

maureens first starting 11 at utd

de gea
anotonio Valencia
Danny Blind
Eric Baily
Luke Shaw
Fellani
Andre herrera,
Juan Mata
Rooney
Anthony Martial
Ibrahimovic

Now tell me that’s a rubbish 11 that could not challenge City or even push for the title. It seems the sands of time have affected your memory. Now where I got that list from. Nearly half the team at one time or another were hung out to dry by Maureen. So yes he could of won the title but it’s odd how you can look at Pep who underachieved at Bayern, a club who never gave him the freedom he wanted. Yet Maureen never underachieved at Utd.
Peps legacy May well be at Barca. But from a City fans point of view. He has a legendary status already.
I don’t know why you mention the league cup, Utd have not exactly covered themselves in glory. Out at the earliest stage this year since Maureen’s era. Yet Utd got to the semis the two previous seasons. And predictably failed.

 

[Papas1982]

I believe city’s was
bravo
zabaleta
kompany
stones
kolarov
silva
fernandino
kdb
yaya
sterling
augero

at best De Gea, and Rooney get in that city side.

if you look at The spending after that. Utd buying one big player a season hoping to step up. City spending 200-300m both seasons on countless squad ‘first teamers to add to the better team.

I’m not saying Jose didn’t poison the squad, which seems to be his thing now. But 2nd was as good as anyone who have expected imo. Which he attained.

why should Bayern give pep everything he wants. They don’t have an endless pit of money like city do or Barcelona pretended to have.

no doubt he will be a legend for you. He’s added loads of titles. But none of them are unexpected territory now. If he doesn’t win another CL title then imo he’s under achieved in his career.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

 

[Junior]

Leadership wise, Maguire is a truly awful captain. He’s not one to shout instructions or encouragement, and on the face of it shows very little in the way of on-pitch leadership. But I’m not sure who else in the squad stands out as a potential captain.

I do take issue with the words in bold type! If Maguire and Shaw have lost the plot at Old Trafford, make schoolboy errors and lack confidence, whilst being able to turn it on a few days earlier in an England shirt, I’m not sure who else you can possibly hold responsible other than Solskjaer. Good, steady players on a Wednesday don’t become pub league players three days later - it’s down to what they’re being instructed to do, or not as the case may be, by Solskjaer.

As I’ve already said, whether any of us like England’s style of play or not, and I don’t, at least they have a very defined system and it is clear that the players know their role. It’s largely why they nearly won the Euros despite some pretty turgid performances. At United, it’s the complete opposite - the difference couldn’t possibly be more stark.

That simply has to impact on performance, surely.

Ole is to blame. The team was set up all wrong. They waltzed through our midfield unchallenged, Shaw and AWB were too high up the pitch and all of a sudden it was man on man and they always seemed to have an extra player on the overlap. Maguire was always going to be up against it.

 

[PJ87]

Same ref;

And it's not the only time.

As for Ronaldo, if this isn't a red;

then why was this?

And they wonder why fans think there is an agenda.

Whilst Ronaldo was stupid, the ball was there and he kicked it..

Hazard , ball was out of play . The person he kicked it from wasn't a member of the outfield players so not reason to attempt a tackle . Can see why it's a red

However that said at the time I thought the hazard thing was stupid

 

[Swango1980]

How about the players themselves take responsibility, I can understand confusion over tactics or who is meant to take up what position etc, but surely Ole can’t take their ability to defend or talk to one another or the basic ability to pass the ball to another team mate.

I think players can take responsibility to a point, especially if they are not following the managers orders. Players can also make individual mistakes, no matter how good they or the team are. They can take responsibility for that, in trying not to put themselves in the same position where bad luck / timing / decision can catch them out in the future.

However, the issues at United are far more fundamental than that. Calling players lazy, lack of desire, not good enough, etc are actually flawed arguments in themselves, and simply making excuses for the management. Not long ago, many were saying that United had the quality in the team to at least compete, maybe just lacking a top class defensive midfielder. Now all of a sudden people are accusing the players of a lack of passion, desire, workrate, quality. It just not that simple, unless United have a squad of David Bentley's, which would be extremely unlucky. Let us look back to last season, we finished second. How? Not because Liverpool had a few injuries, but because time and time again we came back from losing positions. I believe Utd won 31 points from losing positions, and finished with 74 points. How did we do that? It was down to the quality, mentality and character of the players we had on the pitch. Never give up. It certainly wasn't genius from Ole, the most he did was pop up on the sideline with a few minutes to go to clap his hands. If the mentality of the players at United was truly that bad, just imagine where they'd have finished last season, they could have struggled to finish in the top 10.

As fans, we watch what they do on the pitch and it is easy for us to point the fingers at them. And, I certainly do question them, but only to a point. No one can tell me that the entire team is filled with players who do not communicate or do not understand football. These are guys who have played at the highest levels of football all the way from being children, and they've ultimately ended up at one of the biggest clubs in the world. If you cannot communicate, you'll struggle to get in your local Saturday league football team, even if you are a relatively skilful player, let alone make it to the elite level. Certainly, no one stands out to be a leader like Roy Keane, but let's be clear, Roy Keane played in a team where he knew exactly what was expected of him tactically, and what was expected from his team mates. Whenever he ran, he did so with a purpose, not aimlessly. If things were not working out, it was clear what was wrong and he could issue instructions. Of course, normally this would just be to an individual player in individual moments, because the players as a whole also knew their jobs. So, it was not catastrophic issues he was trying to fix. And, regardless of whether he or anyone else barked orders out, they knew the manager would be doing EXACTY the same thing. It is unlikely Alex Ferguson was ever ordering the players to do one thing, and Keane was telling the players to ignore him and do something completely different.

At the moment we shout and scream at players for not running and allowing the opposition to get away from them. In the next sentence, we shout and scream at players for running to try and close someone down when it is never on, or running to intercept a ball, getting in the way of a team mate and leaving acres of space behind them. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they were just individual moments of madness, you can shout and scream at them all you want as it is a clear mistake. But it is happening all the time, if these mistakes are so clear, he should have been shouting and screaming at the players a long long time ago. And, if they continue to make them, he'd have dropped them by now, there are plenty of other players waiting for a chance. But, Ole cannot see it, and it wouldn't surprise me that when a player makes a stupid run, it is actually because they firmly believe it is what Ole wants them to do, that is the message he gives them. They could be given the fitness of Mo Farah and run further than any team has run before, and they'll still have severe issues. So, it is no wonder the players look lost and confused. To me, it has nothing to do with a lack of effort or lack of desire. I am sure most of them have a burning desire to win trophies and would be willing to run to the end of the earth for it. The problem is, they've been left to their own devices, or at best the tactics given to them are extremely basic and flawed. Fans look to players for inspiration, the players look to management for inspiration and direction. They're getting none of that, and it is only human nature to give up to some extent. It is almost like the players are holding up the white flag because they know they'll achieve nothing under this manager.

My predictions are one of 2 things. United, low on confidence, continue their terrible form against Spurs and Atalanta and then get battered by City. At that point, I think nothing will save Ole, and he will be gone (I'm still surprised he is in a job today). OR, we somehow pick up OK results against Spurs and Atalanta, despite bang average / poor performances and then shockingly beat City with a half decent performance. Yet again, this result saves Ole for another 6 months, and we stumble through the rest of the season to push for Europa League. We then buy someone like Rice and Ole tells us that we are on the right track and making great progress, and then the cycle continues.

 

[Billysboots]

I think players can take responsibility to a point, especially if they are not following the managers orders. Players can also make individual mistakes, no matter how good they or the team are. They can take responsibility for that, in trying not to put themselves in the same position where bad luck / timing / decision can catch them out in the future.

However, the issues at United are far more fundamental than that. Calling players lazy, lack of desire, not good enough, etc are actually flawed arguments in themselves, and simply making excuses for the management. Not long ago, many were saying that United had the quality in the team to at least compete, maybe just lacking a top class defensive midfielder. Now all of a sudden people are accusing the players of a lack of passion, desire, workrate, quality. It just not that simple, unless United have a squad of David Bentley's, which would be extremely unlucky. Let us look back to last season, we finished second. How? Not because Liverpool had a few injuries, but because time and time again we came back from losing positions. I believe Utd won 31 points from losing positions, and finished with 74 points. How did we do that? It was down to the quality, mentality and character of the players we had on the pitch. Never give up. It certainly wasn't genius from Ole, the most he did was pop up on the sideline with a few minutes to go to clap his hands. If the mentality of the players at United was truly that bad, just imagine where they'd have finished last season, they could have struggled to finish in the top 10.

As fans, we watch what they do on the pitch and it is easy for us to point the fingers at them. And, I certainly do question them, but only to a point. No one can tell me that the entire team is filled with players who do not communicate or do not understand football. These are guys who have played at the highest levels of football all the way from being children, and they've ultimately ended up at one of the biggest clubs in the world. If you cannot communicate, you'll struggle to get in your local Saturday league football team, even if you are a relatively skilful player, let alone make it to the elite level. Certainly, no one stands out to be a leader like Roy Keane, but let's be clear, Roy Keane played in a team where he knew exactly what was expected of him tactically, and what was expected from his team mates. Whenever he ran, he did so with a purpose, not aimlessly. If things were not working out, it was clear what was wrong and he could issue instructions. Of course, normally this would just be to an individual player in individual moments, because the players as a whole also knew their jobs. So, it was not catastrophic issues he was trying to fix. And, regardless of whether he or anyone else barked orders out, they knew the manager would be doing EXACTY the same thing. It is unlikely Alex Ferguson was ever ordering the players to do one thing, and Keane was telling the players to ignore him and do something completely different.

At the moment we shout and scream at players for not running and allowing the opposition to get away from them. In the next sentence, we shout and scream at players for running to try and close someone down when it is never on, or running to intercept a ball, getting in the way of a team mate and leaving acres of space behind them. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they were just individual moments of madness, you can shout and scream at them all you want as it is a clear mistake. But it is happening all the time, if these mistakes are so clear, he should have been shouting and screaming at the players a long long time ago. And, if they continue to make them, he'd have dropped them by now, there are plenty of other players waiting for a chance. But, Ole cannot see it, and it wouldn't surprise me that when a player makes a stupid run, it is actually because they firmly believe it is what Ole wants them to do, that is the message he gives them. They could be given the fitness of Mo Farah and run further than any team has run before, and they'll still have severe issues. So, it is no wonder the players look lost and confused. To me, it has nothing to do with a lack of effort or lack of desire. I am sure most of them have a burning desire to win trophies and would be willing to run to the end of the earth for it. The problem is, they've been left to their own devices, or at best the tactics given to them are extremely basic and flawed. Fans look to players for inspiration, the players look to management for inspiration and direction. They're getting none of that, and it is only human nature to give up to some extent. It is almost like the players are holding up the white flag because they know they'll achieve nothing under this manager.

My predictions are one of 2 things. United, low on confidence, continue their terrible form against Spurs and Atalanta and then get battered by City. At that point, I think nothing will save Ole, and he will be gone (I'm still surprised he is in a job today). OR, we somehow pick up OK results against Spurs and Atalanta, despite bang average / poor performances and then shockingly beat City with a half decent performance. Yet again, this result saves Ole for another 6 months, and we stumble through the rest of the season to push for Europa League. We then buy someone like Rice and Ole tells us that we are on the right track and making great progress, and then the cycle continues.

The best post I have seen on here in months.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

[

I think players can take responsibility to a point, especially if they are not following the managers orders. Players can also make individual mistakes, no matter how good they or the team are. They can take responsibility for that, in trying not to put themselves in the same position where bad luck / timing / decision can catch them out in the future.

However, the issues at United are far more fundamental than that. Calling players lazy, lack of desire, not good enough, etc are actually flawed arguments in themselves, and simply making excuses for the management. Not long ago, many were saying that United had the quality in the team to at least compete, maybe just lacking a top class defensive midfielder. Now all of a sudden people are accusing the players of a lack of passion, desire, workrate, quality. It just not that simple, unless United have a squad of David Bentley's, which would be extremely unlucky. Let us look back to last season, we finished second. How? Not because Liverpool had a few injuries, but because time and time again we came back from losing positions. I believe Utd won 31 points from losing positions, and finished with 74 points. How did we do that? It was down to the quality, mentality and character of the players we had on the pitch. Never give up. It certainly wasn't genius from Ole, the most he did was pop up on the sideline with a few minutes to go to clap his hands. If the mentality of the players at United was truly that bad, just imagine where they'd have finished last season, they could have struggled to finish in the top 10.

As fans, we watch what they do on the pitch and it is easy for us to point the fingers at them. And, I certainly do question them, but only to a point. No one can tell me that the entire team is filled with players who do not communicate or do not understand football. These are guys who have played at the highest levels of football all the way from being children, and they've ultimately ended up at one of the biggest clubs in the world. If you cannot communicate, you'll struggle to get in your local Saturday league football team, even if you are a relatively skilful player, let alone make it to the elite level. Certainly, no one stands out to be a leader like Roy Keane, but let's be clear, Roy Keane played in a team where he knew exactly what was expected of him tactically, and what was expected from his team mates. Whenever he ran, he did so with a purpose, not aimlessly. If things were not working out, it was clear what was wrong and he could issue instructions. Of course, normally this would just be to an individual player in individual moments, because the players as a whole also knew their jobs. So, it was not catastrophic issues he was trying to fix. And, regardless of whether he or anyone else barked orders out, they knew the manager would be doing EXACTY the same thing. It is unlikely Alex Ferguson was ever ordering the players to do one thing, and Keane was telling the players to ignore him and do something completely different.

At the moment we shout and scream at players for not running and allowing the opposition to get away from them. In the next sentence, we shout and scream at players for running to try and close someone down when it is never on, or running to intercept a ball, getting in the way of a team mate and leaving acres of space behind them. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they were just individual moments of madness, you can shout and scream at them all you want as it is a clear mistake. But it is happening all the time, if these mistakes are so clear, he should have been shouting and screaming at the players a long long time ago. And, if they continue to make them, he'd have dropped them by now, there are plenty of other players waiting for a chance. But, Ole cannot see it, and it wouldn't surprise me that when a player makes a stupid run, it is actually because they firmly believe it is what Ole wants them to do, that is the message he gives them. They could be given the fitness of Mo Farah and run further than any team has run before, and they'll still have severe issues. So, it is no wonder the players look lost and confused. To me, it has nothing to do with a lack of effort or lack of desire. I am sure most of them have a burning desire to win trophies and would be willing to run to the end of the earth for it. The problem is, they've been left to their own devices, or at best the tactics given to them are extremely basic and flawed. Fans look to players for inspiration, the players look to management for inspiration and direction. They're getting none of that, and it is only human nature to give up to some extent. It is almost like the players are holding up the white flag because they know they'll achieve nothing under this manager.

My predictions are one of 2 things. United, low on confidence, continue their terrible form against Spurs and Atalanta and then get battered by City. At that point, I think nothing will save Ole, and he will be gone (I'm still surprised he is in a job today). OR, we somehow pick up OK results against Spurs and Atalanta, despite bang average / poor performances and then shockingly beat City with a half decent performance. Yet again, this result saves Ole for another 6 months, and we stumble through the rest of the season to push for Europa League. We then buy someone like Rice and Ole tells us that we are on the right track and making great progress, and then the cycle continues.

The best post I have seen on here in months.

I’ve no doubt you are passionate about Utd, but, you seem to have slightly overreacted imo.

The discussion was/is about your performance on sunday and the lack of passion and commitment from the players, issues long term is something I know very little about, the only proper Man Utd fans (3 of them) that live near me are all season ticket holders and when discussing Utd, one of them will not have a word said against Ole, he believes your issues go back years and the failure to correctly replace AF.

As for last season, you finished on 74pts I believe, in previous seasons that wouldn’t of made top 4, so I’m not sure if that says Ole overachieved or the season was particularly weak overall.

As for were you go from here? Who would you get in? Would you be prepared to go backwards before moving forward? Whatever happens, I believe your players, any players in fact, should be giving 100% on the pitch and sadly yours didn’t on sunday.

Enjoy the rest of the season.

 

[Swango1980]

[


I’ve no doubt you are passionate about Utd, but, you seem to have slightly overreacted imo.

The discussion was/is about your performance on sunday and the lack of passion and commitment from the players, issues long term is something I know very little about, the only proper Man Utd fans (3 of them) that live near me are all season ticket holders and when discussing Utd, one of them will not have a word said against Ole, he believes your issues go back years and the failure to correctly replace AF.

As for last season, you finished on 74pts I believe, in previous seasons that wouldn’t of made top 4, so I’m not sure if that says Ole overachieved or the season was particularly weak overall.

As for were you go from here? Who would you get in? Would you be prepared to go backwards before moving forward? Whatever happens, I believe your players, any players in fact, should be giving 100% on the pitch and sadly yours didn’t on sunday.

Enjoy the rest of the season.

It is a good question, where do we go from here? I simply do not know in the short term. All I know is that Ole is no where near good enough. Being a season ticket holder does not make your opinion any more valid / important than others who are not. I bet there will be season ticket holders who will still be 100% behind Ole, while others will have been 100% against him long ago. That is obvious when you hear their interviews outside of the ground after the games.

There needs to be a long term goal in the plan, with a manager with a proven record. Honestly, anyone like Poch, Rogers, etc would be good choices in my opinion, they have a good track record. Conte and Zidane have been mentioned, but I'll hold my hands up and say I do not know enough about them to be convinced either way (is Conte another Mourinho, is Zidane a quiet type that just happened to inherit a great Madrid side). However, I'm certain their track record is infinitely better than Ole. Of course, this brings into question the ownership and the board. They need to shoulder the blame when they make bad decisions in the running of the club. Getting the right man is their responsibility, and Ole is not that guy.

Finally, just on claiming players need to take responsibility and criticism, clearly they DO. No one can tell be that the likes of Fred, McTomminay, Rashford, Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelof, etc (well, I could name most of the entire squad) have not received criticism. In fact, the likes of Fred have probably been criticised more than virtually any other player in Premier League history, to the point where the default opinion is that he is an awful player, with an even worse reputation than the likes of Anderson and Kleberson. However, although he is by no means the complete player, far from it, he also shows glimpses of quality and also often shows a high work rate. I believe that the players, like Fred, have shouldered MORE than their fair share of criticism because they've been woefully exposed by the tactics of the management. The match against Liverpool was a perfect example, but we saw it in the previous matches as well. You come up against one of the worlds best sides, who are brilliantly coached, and we somehow expect Fred and McTomminay to stop them playing, with little or no help from Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno or Ronaldo. One of the best teams in the world easily outnumber them in midfield by 2 or 3 players. To me, it seems far too easy to blame the likes of Fred for being an awful player who is all over the place. Replace Fred with Henderson in that Utd team, Utd would have been in no way better for it. Henderson would not shine in that Utd side, nobody would. I'm nervous if the board actually believe the solution to the problem is to simply buy someone like Rice when they get the opportunity.

I was sceptical about Ole getting the job in the first place, even more so when he got a permanent contract even though results were very good up to that point. I've tried to be as positive as possible, and really focused on some of the good things since Mourinho left. However, at no point have I ever had any good impression from him on a tactical point of view, nor impressed with his communication to the players during the game. I've been all for him getting a chance, and been more patient than I would have been for many other managers most likely. However, 3 years on. Awful performance after awful performance from a group of very capable players. Worst home defeat pretty much of all time against our biggest rivals, and most of us saw it coming. Got to be time to go. I'm too young to know what it was like before Fergie became successful, and his job was on the line. However, surely there is absolutely zero evidence that Utd are going to become Premier League champions and dominate for many years with Ole in charge? Maybe the board will completely write off this season and hopefully at least have a long term project set up for next season. It is just such a tough watch for a Utd fan in the meantime.

 

[chrisd]

Let's hope that the long term project starts in the Championship ??

 

[Orikoru]

maureens first starting 11 at utd

de gea
anotonio Valencia
Danny Blind
Eric Baily
Luke Shaw
Fellani
Andre herrera,
Juan Mata
Rooney
Anthony Martial
Ibrahimovic

Now tell me that’s a rubbish 11 that could not challenge City or even push for the title. It seems the sands of time have affected your memory. Now where I got that list from. Nearly half the team at one time or another were hung out to dry by Maureen. So yes he could of won the title but it’s odd how you can look at Pep who underachieved at Bayern, a club who never gave him the freedom he wanted. Yet Maureen never underachieved at Utd.
Peps legacy May well be at Barca. But from a City fans point of view. He has a legendary status already.
I don’t know why you mention the league cup, Utd have not exactly covered themselves in glory. Out at the earliest stage this year since Maureen’s era. Yet Utd got to the semis the two previous seasons. And predictably failed.

That team is awful! Valencia was a midfielder playing at the back, Blind was painfully slow, Bailly is hit and miss and best (still there now and getting nowhere near the side). Herrera overrated and now playing in a third-rate league. The team they've got now is much better than that on paper. (Perhaps not in the way they're performing of course.)

 

[Piece]

They're not Phil.

They're a pair of try hard divvies. Why can't they watch the game with their mates/family and enjoy it. Those who subscribe and watch them are the problem.

I couldn't think of anything worse.

NAIL. ON. THE. HEAD.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It is a good question, where do we go from here? I simply do not know in the short term. All I know is that Ole is no where near good enough. Being a season ticket holder does not make your opinion any more valid / important than others who are not. I bet there will be season ticket holders who will still be 100% behind Ole, while others will have been 100% against him long ago. That is obvious when you hear their interviews outside of the ground after the games.

There needs to be a long term goal in the plan, with a manager with a proven record. Honestly, anyone like Poch, Rogers, etc would be good choices in my opinion, they have a good track record. Conte and Zidane have been mentioned, but I'll hold my hands up and say I do not know enough about them to be convinced either way (is Conte another Mourinho, is Zidane a quiet type that just happened to inherit a great Madrid side). However, I'm certain their track record is infinitely better than Ole. Of course, this brings into question the ownership and the board. They need to shoulder the blame when they make bad decisions in the running of the club. Getting the right man is their responsibility, and Ole is not that guy.

Finally, just on claiming players need to take responsibility and criticism, clearly they DO. No one can tell be that the likes of Fred, McTomminay, Rashford, Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelof, etc (well, I could name most of the entire squad) have not received criticism. In fact, the likes of Fred have probably been criticised more than virtually any other player in Premier League history, to the point where the default opinion is that he is an awful player, with an even worse reputation than the likes of Anderson and Kleberson. However, although he is by no means the complete player, far from it, he also shows glimpses of quality and also often shows a high work rate. I believe that the players, like Fred, have shouldered MORE than their fair share of criticism because they've been woefully exposed by the tactics of the management. The match against Liverpool was a perfect example, but we saw it in the previous matches as well. You come up against one of the worlds best sides, who are brilliantly coached, and we somehow expect Fred and McTomminay to stop them playing, with little or no help from Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno or Ronaldo. One of the best teams in the world easily outnumber them in midfield by 2 or 3 players. To me, it seems far too easy to blame the likes of Fred for being an awful player who is all over the place. Replace Fred with Henderson in that Utd team, Utd would have been in no way better for it. Henderson would not shine in that Utd side, nobody would. I'm nervous if the board actually believe the solution to the problem is to simply buy someone like Rice when they get the opportunity.

I was sceptical about Ole getting the job in the first place, even more so when he got a permanent contract even though results were very good up to that point. I've tried to be as positive as possible, and really focused on some of the good things since Mourinho left. However, at no point have I ever had any good impression from him on a tactical point of view, nor impressed with his communication to the players during the game. I've been all for him getting a chance, and been more patient than I would have been for many other managers most likely. However, 3 years on. Awful performance after awful performance from a group of very capable players. Worst home defeat pretty much of all time against our biggest rivals, and most of us saw it coming. Got to be time to go. I'm too young to know what it was like before Fergie became successful, and his job was on the line. However, surely there is absolutely zero evidence that Utd are going to become Premier League champions and dominate for many years with Ole in charge? Maybe the board will completely write off this season and hopefully at least have a long term project set up for next season. It is just such a tough watch for a Utd fan in the meantime.

No worries mate, just the one point, a season ticket holder will see players week in/week out and will see a lot more of off the ball action than what the telly clappers will see, they can see what a defence is doing when their team are attacking etc.

You may disagree, but it is that, that imo gives their opinion more validity, anyone regardless of circumstance can be passionate and very knowledgeable about the team they support and the game in general, but we also have the glory hunters who can be very opinionated without having a clue.

 

[Swango1980]

No worries mate, just the one point, a season ticket holder will see players week in/week out and will see a lot more of off the ball action than what the telly clappers will see, they can see what a defence is doing when their team are attacking etc.

You may disagree, but it is that, that imo gives their opinion more validity, anyone regardless of circumstance can be passionate and very knowledgeable about the team they support and the game in general, but we also have the glory hunters who can be very opinionated without having a clue.

They also miss out on watching the action closely, unless they watch the fane on TV after. As a fan of a big club, we are lucky enough to ge able to watch virtually every game live on TV. If you were talking about supporting Lincoln City, then I'd accept your point. However, it is virtually redundant when talking about United.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

They also miss out on watching the action closely, unless they watch the fane on TV after. As a fan of a big club, we are lucky enough to ge able to watch virtually every game live on TV. If you were talking about supporting Lincoln City, then I'd accept your point. However, it is virtually redundant when talking about United.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, nothing can replace actually being there, yes, you may get close ups and endless replays of what the TV Companies decide they want you to see, but they won’t show the off the ball running and effort, boring stuff by some players which is often missed and unappreciatted by us telly clappers.