The Footie Thread

[Lord Tyrion]

I suppose it also depends on what the board want.
Maybe they are looking for a yes man whose only job is to coach the players he is given. Toes the line and knows his place.

Interestingly enough, that's usually the European way. I was surprised when Amorim made his dig about being the manager, being the coach is the norm on the continent.

Surely the best is a mix, DoF and manager working together but the manager has to have the final say. If either strongly objects, the player doesn't get signed. No point buying a player the manager doesn't rate though

 

[irip]

That’s not the way to run a proper football club if you want success on the pitch.

No it’s not but is it what the board want?
They get enough grief off the fans (rightly so) without the manager putting the boot in might be their attitude

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Well Zidane with 2 titles and 3 CL is sat around at the moment

But realistically Man Utd are a huge club but at the moment aren’t an attractive club for a top manager

Needs a lot of work done to get it back to a level where the likes of Flick , or Enrique etc may well be ok leaving other huge clubs to go to Man Utd

True, but Madrid are a bit of an exception and as others have said, Zidane has no interest in coming to England

 

[irip]

Interestingly enough, that's usually the European way. I was surprised when Amorim made his dig about being the manager, being the coach is the norm on the continent.

Surely the best is a mix, DoF and manager working together but the manager has to have the final say. If either strongly objects, the player doesn't get signed. No point buying a player the manager doesn't rate though

Ideally you want the manager choosing the players to buy or sell and the DoF doing the work on it with contracts fees etc.
It doesn’t always work that way though

 

[Billysboots]

But realistically Man Utd are a huge club but at the moment aren’t an attractive club for a top manager

Needs a lot of work done to get it back to a level where the likes of Flick , or Enrique etc may well be ok leaving other huge clubs to go to Man Utd

Sorry, Phil, but I’m not having that.

Manchester United are still Manchester United. One of the most recognised brands in the sporting world which plays in front of sell out 75,000 crowds every other week, with untold millions watching at home.

No manager is going to turn the opportunity down to take the task on, if the timing is right.

 

[Swango1980]

Man Utd is certainly not the right club for a manager who doesn't like high pressure, and is not confident in being able to play good football.

However, that profile doesn't match the profile of a "top manager".

Man Utd fans or the board are not expecting to win leagues and champions leagues in the next few years. Not even demanding a Top 5 finish necessarily. All they are looking for is better football, and a sign we are improving. Pretty sure any top manager is capable of that. And they will get paid well also, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Amorim never helped himself with his inflexibility, including stating that so openly. The next manager will certainly need to be able to adapt to different styles of football.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Sorry, Phil, but I’m not having that.

Manchester United are still Manchester United. One of the most recognised brands in the sporting world which plays in front of sell out 75,000 crowds every other week, with untold millions watching at home.

No manager is going to turn the opportunity down to take the task on, if the timing is right.

As i said - a huge club , one of the biggest but with so many problems that is going to put off the top managers

It’s a revolving door at the moment

The club needs to find some safe stable hands to build a foundation that some can then come in and build a team on top off

There are some very very good players there but a lot that are just aren’t

Imo I don’t see any of the really top managers leaving their club to go to Man Utd at this stage

 

[Billysboots]

No it’s not but is it what the board want?
They get enough grief off the fans (rightly so) without the manager putting the boot in might be their attitude

And therein lies the issue with Amorim’s sacking.

The board knew what they were getting. They knew he would play three at the back. They knew he wanted players bringing in to allow him to do that.

The owner said a few short months ago that you can’t judge the manager until he has been there three years. The majority of pundits accept that, whilst slow, there has been progress.

And yet, all of a sudden, the Sporting Director, by all accounts, starts to intervene to the point Amorim saw it as interference. During the last week or so he has hinted, with no real attempt at subtlety, that having employed him to do a job, the club are now crossing the line in telling him how to do it and, worst of all for him, which players he could do it with.

As he said after the Leeds game, he thought he was there to manage the club. I don’t doubt there was no ambiguity in that regard when he agreed his contract. So somewhere there has been a change of tack at hierarchy level. And I can absolutely see why Amorim would be unhappy about it.

That is, of course, a matter for them. But the timing is atrocious, just as it was when ETH went. You either sack during the summer, or allow the manager the rest of the following season.

We are now precisely where we were fourteen months ago. Which is why, for me anyway, today is a truly depressing day. Not so much because a manager has been sacked. But because those running the club keep making the same mistakes again and again.

They don’t learn. And the losers are the fans.

 

[anotherdouble]

Everyone is talking about managers as if they are managing. They are not. They are merely coaching. Managers as those of us old enough to remember managers don’t exist. Other people above the ‘managers’ are buying often as we hear without the managers input. The same with selling. It’s irrelevant who any club brings in if those at the top want to run the playing side

 

[PaulMdj]

Sorry, Phil, but I’m not having that.

Manchester United are still Manchester United. One of the most recognised brands in the sporting world which plays in front of sell out 75,000 crowds every other week, with untold millions watching at home.

No manager is going to turn the opportunity down to take the task on, if the timing is right.

This with bells and whistles on, Man Utd as a Club with the right package could just about attract 99% of all managers out there.

Whether we agree or not, if Utd are set on a particular coach they will just about promise them whatever they want and that could include autonomy in how the team plays, a war chest to bring in the players they want, etc etc.

I would also suggest the Utd board/owners will almost want instant results, they will not see it as a long term project, they’ll want quick turnaround and back to competeing at the top in all comps.

Whether that’s realistic is irrelevant, Utd are not a mid-table Club.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Just heard Neville talking about Amorim and also previous managers and he was talking about managers having to do things The Man Utd way ?!

It’s a saying we hear a lot

The West Ham way ? The Spurs Way

Is that something on the pitch ? The club ?

What are clubs “way”

When I have heard people talk about the Liverpool Way it’s more about the club as whole and its values as opposed to what’s on the pitch - more about the club bond with the local community etc as opposed to a tactic on the pitch

 

[irip]

And therein lies the issue with Amorim’s sacking.

The board knew what they were getting. They knew he would play three at the back. They knew he wanted players bringing in to allow him to do that.

The owner said a few short months ago that you can’t judge the manager until he has been there three years. The majority of pundits accept that, whilst slow, there has been progress.

And yet, all of a sudden, the Sporting Director, by all accounts, starts to intervene to the point Amorim saw it as interference. During the last week or so he has hinted, with no real attempt at subtlety, that having employed him to do a job, the club are now crossing the line in telling him how to do it and, worst of all for him, which players he could do it with.

As he said after the Leeds game, he thought he was there to manage the club. I don’t doubt there was no ambiguity in that regard when he agreed his contract. So somewhere there has been a change of tack at hierarchy level. And I can absolutely see why Amorim would be unhappy about it.

That is, of course, a matter for them. But the timing is atrocious, just as it was when ETH went. You either sack during the summer, or allow the manager the rest of the following season.

We are now precisely where we were fourteen months ago. Which is why, for me anyway, today is a truly depressing day. Not so much because a manager has been sacked. But because those running the club keep making the same mistakes again and again.

They don’t learn. And the losers are the fans.

I think you could see improvements and a style of management both on and off the pitch.
Getting rid of the players with the wrong attitude was probably his greatest achievement.

I think he was doing a decent job and another couple of transfer windows I could see them challenging for top 4 most seasons.

As far as I could tell the fans were reasonably happy with how things were going except the odd performance.

Seems a strange time to sack him especially given they intend appointing a caretaker so obviously they didn’t have a plan with who they wanted to replace him with.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just heard Neville talking about Amorim and also previous managers and he was talking about managers having to do things The Man Utd way ?!

It’s a saying we hear a lot

The West Ham way ? The Spurs Way

Is that something on the pitch ? The club ?

What are clubs “way”

When I have heard people talk about the Liverpool Way it’s more about the club as whole and its values as opposed to what’s on the pitch - more about the club bond with the local community etc as opposed to a tactic on the pitch

...and likewise across the border...the Celtic Way... 33 days was all that Nancy lasted - as he couldn't get a team winning every game...

 

[Hobbit]

I suppose it also depends on what the board want.
Maybe they are looking for a yes man whose only job is to coach the players he is given. Toes the line and knows his place.

If it’s just a coach they want, Michael Carrick. He’s worked back room at Old Trafford and, I think, he had a Short spell as caretaker there.

 

[Tashyboy]

Sorted.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

One thing for sure is Sky are really milking it

 

[Golfmmad]

That’s the pitfalls of management

Imo Man Utd need to get someone in to build a foundation again

someone like Pochettino or De Zerbi - managers used to the Prem

I was thinking of De Zerbi, who is doing well at Marseille.
Trouble is, De Zerbi knows what he wants and will not like the interference about football matters from the board.
That was his problem at Brighton, his best players being sold whilst needing his best players for Europe.
I think that was the main reason Fergie was so sucessful at United, he had control over football matters.
I dont see why that cant be repeated at other clubs.
Is that why Pep has been so sucessful at City?

 

[Slime]

I was thinking of De Zerbi, who is doing well at Marseille.
Trouble is, De Zerbi knows what he wants and will not like the interference about football matters from the board.
That was his problem at Brighton, his best players being sold whilst needing his best players for Europe.
I think that was the main reason Fergie was so sucessful at United, he had control over football matters.
I dont see why that cant be repeated at other clubs.
Is that why Pep has been so sucessful at City?

No, it's because he had an open cheque book with limitless funds.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I was thinking of De Zerbi, who is doing well at Marseille.
Trouble is, De Zerbi knows what he wants and will not like the interference about football matters from the board.
That was his problem at Brighton, his best players being sold whilst needing his best players for Europe.
I think that was main reason Fergie was so sucessful at United, he had control over football matters.
I dont see why that cant be repeated at other clubs.
Is that why Pep has been so sucessful at City?

Pep still has to work with a DoF , same when we had Klopp and even Ferguson worked with Gill

I think there is so much more in the sport now when it comes to managing a team

But there needs to be a strong working relationship


The story of Salah coming to Liverpool is one that sticks out for me - Klopp wanted Julian Brandt - the scouting team and data team said that Salah would work better and he trusted them

 

[Golfmmad]

No, it's because he had an open cheque book with limitless funds.

He might well have had an open cheque book, but did he choose who he wanted to fit the system that he wanted to play?