The Footie Thread

[Aztecs27]

Edu leaving Arsenal - that could be a blow , been a key reason for their upturn

Rumours that Marinakis may have lured him in.

TITLE CHARGE IS FULLY ON GUYS. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.

 

[Aztecs27]

Arsenal sporting director Edu to leave for Premier League rivals

The Brazilian has played a vital role at the Emirates in recent years but is now poised to join up with Evangelos Marinakis

www.independent.co.uk

oh, I missed this haha.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Couple of discussions this morning on good old Talksport

First one - Arteta , is he overrated or not


Second one - what’s been the most expensive flop in the Premier in the last ten years ( after Ferguson left )


1. First one - imo yes very much so , spent a fortune , bottled the league 2 seasons ago , he appears to have an arrogance that isn’t justified as well as having very little trust in any players outside his 11-13 - it’s hard to complain about injuries when he sold off a good number of his support players

2. Names that came up

Werner to Chelsea
Sancho to Man utd
Di Maria to Utd
Pepe to Arsenal
Maguire to Utd
Lukaku to Chelsea
Pogba to Utd
Antony to Utd

Looking at the list

don’t think Maguire is a flop - way too expensive but did a job for United

Hard to judge Sancho

Werner was ok

Pogba had fleating moments


But for me it would be a straight up choice between

Lukaku and Antony

Lukaku - just under £100mil -one season , 15 goals in 44 games and then out on loan for 3 seasons

Antony - £82mil - 87 games - 12 goals and 5 assists

 

[Aztecs27]

Has Forest got a tough run of fixtures to not look forward to. I always think that however clubs get through them it the difference between challenging for the top four, mid season safety or a relegation battle.
That said I cannot see Forest imploding.

There's not really an easy game in the Premier League, but that said, the lead up to the new year is quite juicy.

That said, If we can get a point vs Newcastle and head into the international break on a relative high, I look at the fixtures coming up and there's not many that I don't think we can't get anything from if we carry on playing the way we've been playing. Perhaps maybe not against City and to a lesser extent Arsenal (they've looked a bit more vulnerable).

Aside from a weird 4-4-2 formation against Fulham (which should have been a boring 0-0 draw save for a dodgy pen decision), we're unbeaten and have looked competitive in every game we've played. Even down to 10 men against Chelsea, we nearly nicked it at the end.

Our bench in previous seasons would have been the reason we end up losing games and not holding on....this season, we're bringing on players who are often inches away from scoring a winner. The turnaround is quite remarkable....especially given we have two of our best midfielders still to come back from injury.

That's not to say we'll carry on unbeaten til Jan - law of averages states we'll be bought back down to earth sooner rather than later (most probably this weekend) - but the group of players seems tight knit and are obviously well coached, so any set backs I don't think will send us spiralling. BUT, if we do somehow make it to Jan with 10-12 points from the next 6 games, then I'll fully believe we'll be challenging for Europe.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@Arthur Wedge I think Arteta is doing a good job at Arsenal, not over rated. It's hard winning the PL, even more so now with City up there. No margin for error. Arteta has got Arsenal competing again, that has to count for something.

I'd have all in that list as flops except for Maguire, not his fault that the price was bonkers and he still a solid defender, just not a Rolls Royce one.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

@Arthur Wedge I think Arteta is doing a good job at Arsenal, not over rated. It's hard winning the PL, even more so now with City up there. No margin for error. Arteta has got Arsenal competing again, that has to count for something.

I'd have all in that list as flops except for Maguire, not his fault that the price was bonkers and he still a solid defender, just not a Rolls Royce one.

Maybe overrated is not the right word

He does have Arsenal challenging but it’s getting over that line and so for despite a lot of signings he is struggling to make that step - but he has this air of arrogance of someone who has won multiple trophies

Maybes it’s an attitude that’s needed to succeed - fine line between that self confidence and at the moment it seems to be his management that’s having the club falling short

 

[road2ruin]

2. Names that came up

Werner to Chelsea
Sancho to Man utd
Di Maria to Utd
Pepe to Arsenal
Maguire to Utd
Lukaku to Chelsea
Pogba to Utd
Antony to Utd

Looking at the list

don’t think Maguire is a flop - way too expensive but did a job for United

Hard to judge Sancho

Werner was ok

Pogba had fleating moments


But for me it would be a straight up choice between

Lukaku and Antony

Lukaku - just under £100mil -one season , 15 goals in 44 games and then out on loan for 3 seasons

Antony - £82mil - 87 games - 12 goals and 5 assists

I agree about Maguire, always feel it's a little unfair that he pops up on these lists as he didn't choose the £80m price tag and he's been a fairly solid defender, can think of far worse but it's the transfer fee that gets him. He's definitely not a flop.

With regards Lukaku, I think he can be on that list at least twice (Lukaku to Utd) and possibly more if you can European transfers to the list.

Anthony. Agree he should be on the list however if he is then Mudryk should also be included. A similar price paid by Chelsea but someone goes under the radar in terms. He's absolutely useless from what I have seen of him.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I agree about Maguire, always feel it's a little unfair that he pops up on these lists as he didn't choose the £80m price tag and he's been a fairly solid defender, can think of far worse but it's the transfer fee that gets him. He's definitely not a flop.

With regards Lukaku, I think he can be on that list at least twice (Lukaku to Utd) and possibly more if you can European transfers to the list.

Anthony. Agree he should be on the list however if he is then Mudryk should also be included. A similar price paid by Chelsea but someone goes under the radar in terms. He's absolutely useless from what I have seen of him.

Mudryk is a good shout , not sure how he was forgotten , £70mil for him

Guess you could put Fernandez in there as well at £100mil and right now isn’t first choice

Lukaku did ok in his first season didn’t he ? 27 goals which was his best season in English football

 

[Swango1980]

I suppose Any Carroll doesn't fit the rules to this game of defining the biggest flops in last decade. Although, I thought players like Benteke and Balotelli to Liverpool would at least get an honorable mention.

Others that didn't get a mention:

Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea or Kalvin Phillips to Man City could be decent shouts as well.

Darwin Nunez in a Top 10 list anyone?

 

[Bdill93]

Maybe overrated is not the right word

He does have Arsenal challenging but it’s getting over that line and so for despite a lot of signings he is struggling to make that step - but he has this air of arrogance of someone who has won multiple trophies

Maybes it’s an attitude that’s needed to succeed - fine line between that self confidence and at the moment it seems to be his management that’s having the club falling short

I'm with you, I think he's overrated.

Arsenal fans would have you believe he's the messiah but he's not delivering what actually matters to a club like Arsenal - silverware.

Simply using the excuse that pep/ City is/ are too good is not good enough either, Klopp managed to do it.

You cant spend like 600m and make excuses year after year, eventually you have to deliver the goods!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Lukaku scored 25 PL goals in one season at Everton, 18 the season before. We played to his strengths. He is a success in Italy. Overall, he is a success, just not at Chelsea or Utd.

I suspect we may be adding more Chelsea names to that list before too long, well pointed out @road2ruin

 

[Bdill93]

I suppose Any Carroll doesn't fit the rules to this game of defining the biggest flops in last decade. Although, I thought players like Benteke and Balotelli to Liverpool would at least get an honorable mention.

Others that didn't get a mention:

Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea or Kalvin Phillips to Man City could be decent shouts as well.

Darwin Nunez in a Top 10 list anyone?

Theres 30m flops and theres 80m+ flops though mate.

I think United fans may just need to take this one on the chin, recruitment model over the last 10 years has been woeful at times.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I suppose Any Carroll doesn't fit the rules to this game of defining the biggest flops in last decade. Although, I thought players like Benteke and Balotelli to Liverpool would at least get an honorable mention.

Others that didn't get a mention:

Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea or Kalvin Phillips to Man City could be decent shouts as well.

Darwin Nunez in a Top 10 list anyone?

Is it something that just triggers when there is some Man Utd negativity that you need to have some Liverpool “whataboutary”

The reason why they used the last ten years was because it’s when Ferguson left and they were talking about Amorin potential signings

Theres 30m flops and theres 80m+ flops though mate.

I think United fans may just need to take this one on the chin, recruitment model over the last 10 years has been woeful at times.

That was the point they were making - they were talking players costing over £50mil plus

Nunez was talked about but then his record isn’t too bad - 36 goals and 20 assists

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Lukaku scored 25 PL goals in one season at Everton, 18 the season before. We played to his strengths. He is a success in Italy. Overall, he is a success, just not at Chelsea or Utd.

I suspect we may be adding more Chelsea names to that list before too long, well pointed out @road2ruin

Chelsea spending at times is staggering - some of them look very good - Caicedo is looking like the player they wanted , Lavia getting there , Jackson also starting to creep in

But still think with the amount spent they couldn’t get one decent GK

 

[Swango1980]

Theres 30m flops and theres 80m+ flops though mate.

I think United fans may just need to take this one on the chin, recruitment model over the last 10 years has been woeful at times.

I'm not defending the likes of Anthony at all. I was just adding to the discussion based on the list that was contained on the original post. For example, Werner was on the list, who cost Chelsea £47.5 million in 2020. If he gets on the list, then you can look at others (and account for football inflation):

Benteke £32.5 million to Liverpool in 2015
Darwin Nunez Euro 75 million (plus add ons if applicable) to Liverpool in 2022
Kalvin Phillips £42 million to City in 2022
Danny Drinkwater £35 million to Chelsea in 2017

Antony was a terrible buy on that money, but he still featured heavily in the Man Utd team in his first season, when we finished 3rd. Goals and assists really poor, but I always gave him a thumbs up for his work rate and tracking back. He was like the polar opposite to Rashford that season, who was great going forward by poor out of possession. Some of the players above barely got a kick for the team they went to.

Utd are always one of the biggest spenders in last 30 years. So, if they go through a bad period, it is inevitable their players will feature heavily at the top of any list that heavily factors in the transfer fee. Just pointing out there have been quite a few stinkers at other sides.

 

[Bdill93]

I'm not defending the likes of Anthony at all. I was just adding to the discussion based on the list that was contained on the original post. For example, Werner was on the list, who cost Chelsea £47.5 million in 2020. If he gets on the list, then you can look at others (and account for football inflation):

Benteke £32.5 million to Liverpool in 2015
Darwin Nunez Euro 75 million (plus add ons if applicable) to Liverpool in 2022
Kalvin Phillips £42 million to City in 2022
Danny Drinkwater £35 million to Chelsea in 2017

Antony was a terrible buy on that money, but he still featured heavily in the Man Utd team in his first season, when we finished 3rd. Goals and assists really poor, but I always gave him a thumbs up for his work rate and tracking back. He was like the polar opposite to Rashford that season, who was great going forward by poor out of possession. Some of the players above barely got a kick for the team they went to.

Utd are always one of the biggest spenders in last 30 years. So, if they go through a bad period, it is inevitable their players will feature heavily at the top of any list that heavily factors in the transfer fee. Just pointing out there have been quite a few stinkers at other sides.

Oh you're not alone for sure!

I mean Lukaku has been sold across his career for like 350m or something, I think his best performances were on loan from Chelsea at Baggies and Everton

Tonali at Newcastle too - a lot of money for a player who hasn't exactly set the world alight!

West Ham must have a few in there too?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Oh you're not alone for sure!

I mean Lukaku has been sold across his career for like 350m or something, I think his best performances were on loan from Chelsea at Baggies and Everton

Tonali at Newcastle too - a lot of money for a player who hasn't exactly set the world alight!

West Ham must have a few in there too?

They were really just discussing those big money moves with players coming in with big reputations

Lots of clubs will have had “flops” and some clubs will see them as expensive relative to the size of the club

But we are looking at your top end signings

 

[Swango1980]

Is it something that just triggers when there is some Man Utd negativity that you need to have some Liverpool “whataboutary”

The reason why they used the last ten years was because it’s when Ferguson left and they were talking about Amorin potential signings


That was the point they were making - they were talking players costing over £50mil plus

Nunez was talked about but then his record isn’t too bad - 36 goals and 20 assists

What do you mean Liverpool whataboutary? I added players from several different sides.

More generally, do you think you are more prompted to make posts that shed United in a negative light, and less inclined to do so if the same was about Liverpool? Had this site been around in the 90's, would you be posting lists that showed a heavy weighting towards Liverpool flops? I suspect not.

I'm sure not all your posts are done so to primarily take a swipe at Man Utd, but of course many of them are. And repeated. And twitter links added to try and prove points. So, don't be surprised on a public forum if a Man Utd fans voices their opinion or counter argument. I don't think I did it disrespectfully or got personal, I simply added to the discussion. If I started posting negative posts towards Liverpool, I'm sure you'd counter them. If I posted negative things towards Everton, Forest, City or Wolves players / clubs, I'm sure their fans might like to have their say. It's allowed on a public forum called the Footie thread.

PS I didn't know there was A £50 million cap to make the list either, and I only added the other players because Werner was around £47.5 million from what I saw

 

[Bdill93]

They were really just discussing those big money moves with players coming in with big reputations

Lots of clubs will have had “flops” and some clubs will see them as expensive relative to the size of the club

But we are looking at your top end signings

Probably Lukaku to ether United or Chelsea the second time for me tbh....

 

[Bazz]

Anyone listen to 606 on Saturday night? They had a guy moaning he couldn't take a kid into the Brighton end wearing a Liverpool shirt. Is it just me that thinks that's the right thing to do?