The Footie Thread

[Tashyboy]

It is hilarious that a bunch of failed Sunday league and computer manager players can post all kinds of tactical advice and complaints about the most successful England manager of all-time in big tournaments. England lost to a better team. And yet most of you think you know more than Gareth Southgate. Hilarious and pathetic.

Go back to posting comments about giving Rory advice about his swing and Scottie about his putting. It's about the same level of stupidity.

But that’s just it, it not hilarious.

Gareth Southgate has had the job for 8 years. 8 years. So what is his style of play after 8 years. Hoof it long from the back. You talk about failed Sunday league managers. It takes a special kind of manager to make world class players look like bang average mid table championship players.
I have said it for some time.The players have carried Southgate for 8 years. This tournament, look at the goals. Most were world class individual brilliance. Not magnificent team play. Time after time after time, the ball was kicked long, but where did it get us. No where, straight to the opposition and we are under pressure again. Then look at the goal we scored, played out from the back from Pickford and a piece of brilliance from Palmer.
The game has changed massively since the ball was played out from the back. Why has Southgate not seen that.

The whole set up this tournament has been amateurish. A right back at left back, Foden out of position, still an unsettled three in front of the back four. And no natural left winger played the whole of the tournament. That sounds like Sunday league management to me. If fans are happy with that, then I will respect that. Serious question though, why did Southgate take Gordon?
I look at the Spanish team last night and it was balanced, a 16/17 yr old on the wing. The left side of England after 8 years is quite frankly embarrassing.
The only thing that surprised me last night was that Spain did not hammer us. I was reading the forum last night and had to bite my lip. The finger being pointed at certain individual players. Why? Spain were a quality quality team that just kept coming. They reverted to there style of play, probing for gaps. And they found them. That’s what the best teams do. It is Southgates job to see where the problems are and react to them. He only reacted when he had to.

Also My grief is with the pundits who have played with Southgate and given him an easy ride.

Looking forward, Spain have something to build on, that is the standard that the rest of the world has to reach. Can England reach that level under Southgate. Not a cat in hells chance.

 

[Tashyboy]

Shows the quality of this whole tournament. Lots of low scoring games. Made them very thrilling because you didn't know who wins until the final whistle, but a 2:0 here or there would have been nice.
Maybe there should be a minimum for at which point the trophy gets awarded.

Apparently they changed the format this week year for the first time.If it was level between players then it went to assists.If that was the case n all o of Spain would have won it.

 

[Piece]

It is hilarious that a bunch of failed Sunday league and computer manager players can post all kinds of tactical advice and complaints about the most successful England manager of all-time in big tournaments. England lost to a better team. And yet most of you think you know more than Gareth Southgate. Hilarious and pathetic.

Go back to posting comments about giving Rory advice about his swing and Scottie about his putting. It's about the same level of stupidity.

There is a good point here, except it evaporates when pretty much all the ex-pros and ex-managers, who have more managerial experience, are saying the same thing as forum pundits.

 

[harpo_72]

Don’t disagree that a new manager looks like the way to go. His game management, especially when using substitutions, isn’t great.

Genuine question; are we expecting too much from the players? They look great in the Prem, especially alongside stars from other countries, but are we viewing them in an echo chamber? We’ve seen performances from pretty much every player that we believe were below par but is that their level on the world stage? Who in that England team is genuinely world class, and who did we think is world class was actually shut down by better players? Who performed at a consistently high level throughout the tournament but who only shined when a weaker opponent allowed them to?

Many say it was a poor tournament for the majority of teams. Maybe most of the teams are at similar levels and just cancelled each other out. I find it hard to believe that the manager of almost every European team needs the sack. I said at the start of the tournament, England have found their level. Could a different manager get them an extra 10% and see them over the line? Possibly, maybe but I’m not convinced there’s enough genuinely world class talent in that squad to achieve it.

If you were to look at Georgia and Austria for example you could argue they out performed expectations given the perceived player quality.. which can only lead you back to their managerial teams and their understanding of what they required.
Also Switzerland, they have a few world class players ( probably not the depth of squad) but they outplayed the Germans and really pressed on .. England was just better on penalties ( big up to Gareth on that one , because that’s a critical aspect)
What I would say is this and we must not forget it .. football is a team sport and everyone must participate irrespective of their “quality “ ( I did not know how to put this) .. saying you have x number of world quality players doesn’t make you the better team .. it’s how they are positioned and how they play together..
Gareth wasn’t far off perfection, he just needed to be looking at Kane and his wing back options.. he also missed that Stones has stood in as a CDM for Man City and he has 2 quality back up CB in Guehi and Konsa ..
But it’s not fair to just focus this on Gareth because it’s his support team who should be bringing these observations to the table ..
Having worked as a strategist and technical specialist in high end sport the decisions are made based on the scenarios and inputs off the team not just one person… although the team owner did screw us over at one race and then realised he pays us because we knew more

 

[Orikoru]

There is a good point here, except it evaporates when pretty much all the ex-pros and ex-managers, who have more managerial experience, are saying the same thing as forum pundits.

And the obvious point that you might as well delete the forum if we're not supposed to have opinions on anything.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Don’t disagree that a new manager looks like the way to go. His game management, especially when using substitutions, isn’t great.

Genuine question; are we expecting too much from the players? They look great in the Prem, especially alongside stars from other countries, but are we viewing them in an echo chamber? We’ve seen performances from pretty much every player that we believe were below par but is that their level on the world stage? Who in that England team is genuinely world class, and who did we think is world class was actually shut down by better players? Who performed at a consistently high level throughout the tournament but who only shined when a weaker opponent allowed them to?

Many say it was a poor tournament for the majority of teams. Maybe most of the teams are at similar levels and just cancelled each other out. I find it hard to believe that the manager of almost every European team needs the sack. I said at the start of the tournament, England have found their level. Could a different manager get them an extra 10% and see them over the line? Possibly, maybe but I’m not convinced there’s enough genuinely world class talent in that squad to achieve it.

The short answer is - yes the players are more than good enough to win national tournaments

The players playing in the biggest clubs in England , Spain and Germany

But none of them are playing in the roles or tactics where they excel

If either Klopp or Pep had that team this is how they would line up


Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Shaw/Chilwell

Rice
Bellingham
Foden

Saka
Kane/Palmer
Gordon


The difference they would be doing is

The full backs would be the width and be high up the pitch - there would be a DM sitting in the middle covering the fullbacks as they support

Bellingham would be the energy , the box to box in the middle with Foden as a 10 floating and either Kane staying high as the forward or Palmer as a false 9

That’s how they would set up

Add into that a more positive mindset where the players would be taking it to the opposition

And even more crucial - high intensity pressing onto the opposition- the likes of palmer , Saka , Gordon , supported by Bellingham and Foden pressing onto their backline

And then even the full backs getting involved - two of the biggest pressers in the Liverpool team are the full backs

The issue is they need to do it without fear , be braver and that’s the biggest issue - Southgate has a “must not lose” approach and mindset when he starts the game and things really only change when he starts to panic and they go behind

England have the players and ability to win tournaments- they need a mindset and manager to bring it together

 

[Orikoru]

Yup. We are definitely top 3 in the world in terms of squad quality. It's like having Man City's squad but Southgate managing them as if they're Crystal Palace - backs to the wall and hope for a bit of individual brilliance. We were joint favourites with France but every game we turned up like the underdogs.

 

[Pin-seeker]

The short answer is - yes the players are more than good enough to win national tournaments

The players playing in the biggest clubs in England , Spain and Germany

But none of them are playing in the roles or tactics where they excel

If either Klopp or Pep had that team this is how they would line up


Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Shaw/Chilwell

Rice
Bellingham
Foden

Saka
Kane/Palmer
Gordon


The difference they would be doing is

The full backs would be the width and be high up the pitch - there would be a DM sitting in the middle covering the fullbacks as they support

Bellingham would be the energy , the box to box in the middle with Foden as a 10 floating and either Kane staying high as the forward or Palmer as a false 9

That’s how they would set up

Add into that a more positive mindset where the players would be taking it to the opposition

And even more crucial - high intensity pressing onto the opposition- the likes of palmer , Saka , Gordon , supported by Bellingham and Foden pressing onto their backline

And then even the full backs getting involved - two of the biggest pressers in the Liverpool team are the full backs

The issue is they need to do it without fear , be braver and that’s the biggest issue - Southgate has a “must not lose” approach and mindset when he starts the game and things really only change when he starts to panic and they go behind

England have the players and ability to win tournaments- they need a mindset and manager to bring it together

Klopp won 1 title with Liverpool.
Last 2 seasons finished 5th & 3rd

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If either Klopp or Pep had that team this is how they would line up


Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Shaw/Chilwell

Rice
Bellingham
Foden

Saka
Kane/Palmer
Gordon


The difference they would be doing is

The full backs would be the width and be high up the pitch - there would be a DM sitting in the middle covering the fullbacks as they support

Bellingham would be the energy , the box to box in the middle with Foden as a 10 floating and either Kane staying high as the forward or Palmer as a false 9

That’s how they would set up

Add into that a more positive mindset where the players would be taking it to the opposition

And even more crucial - high intensity pressing onto the opposition- the likes of palmer , Saka , Gordon , supported by Bellingham and Foden pressing onto their backline

And then even the full backs getting involved - two of the biggest pressers in the Liverpool team are the full backs

The issue is they need to do it without fear , be braver and that’s the biggest issue - Southgate has a “must not lose” approach and mindset when he starts the game and things really only change when he starts to panic and they go behind

England have the players and ability to win tournaments- they need a mindset and manager to bring it together

You've had that discussion with them? That seems such a sweeping statement??????????

At the end of the day every manager will have their own ideas. I am not sure every nation presses and so is that the most important thing. Southgate clearly still doesn't know is best formation or tactics and so I'd rather have someone new that can solve those issues first

 

[RichA]

You've had that discussion with them? That seems such a sweeping statement??????????

At the end of the day every manager will have their own ideas. I am not sure every nation presses and so is that the most important thing. Southgate clearly still doesn't know is best formation or tactics and so I'd rather have someone new that can solve those issues first

The better teams all seemed to press and it certainly worked for those playing against England.
Whenever Rice, Stones, Guehi and Walker tried to knock the ball between themselves they were pressured into the inevitable blind kick upfield or pass back to Pickford so he could kick it blindly upfield, giving the ball away almost every time.
Whenever the opposition had possession at the back England just had Kane and Foden lazily running from side to side, expending their energy but never actually pressuring the defenders into doing anything that gave the ball away.
It just got a bit silly and made England look worse than they actually are.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

The short answer is - yes the players are more than good enough to win national tournaments

The players playing in the biggest clubs in England , Spain and Germany

But none of them are playing in the roles or tactics where they excel

If either Klopp or Pep had that team this is how they would line up


Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Shaw/Chilwell

Rice
Bellingham
Foden

Saka
Kane/Palmer
Gordon


The difference they would be doing is

The full backs would be the width and be high up the pitch - there would be a DM sitting in the middle covering the fullbacks as they support

Bellingham would be the energy , the box to box in the middle with Foden as a 10 floating and either Kane staying high as the forward or Palmer as a false 9

That’s how they would set up

Add into that a more positive mindset where the players would be taking it to the opposition

And even more crucial - high intensity pressing onto the opposition- the likes of palmer , Saka , Gordon , supported by Bellingham and Foden pressing onto their backline

And then even the full backs getting involved - two of the biggest pressers in the Liverpool team are the full backs

The issue is they need to do it without fear , be braver and that’s the biggest issue - Southgate has a “must not lose” approach and mindset when he starts the game and things really only change when he starts to panic and they go behind

England have the players and ability to win tournaments- they need a mindset and manager to bring it together

I don't think they'd select Pickford. No point having a keeper that is only comfortable hoofing it long when under pressure if you want to be a possession based side that builds from the back.

That's another issue with Southgate's side; completely incongruous. If you're going to play a low block, make sure you're excellent from set pieces and a real threat on the break. We were neither of those things. If you're going to play possession based football and build from the back, the very starting point of that is selecting a keeper that can do it. If you're going to play it long, select a target man / someone that can run in behind, no point playing a striker that wants ball to feet.

I could live with Southgate's low block approach if it all came together and was effective. But it wasn't. We missed Maguire from set pieces and Sterling on the counter as compared to 2021. He didn't select players that suited the way he wanted to play, regardless of thoughts on whether that style was the right way to go, not being able to effectively execute his own approach is the really poor bit.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The better teams all seemed to press and it certainly worked for those playing against England.
Whenever Rice, Stones, Guehi and Walker tried to knock the ball between themselves they were pressured into the inevitable blind kick upfield or pass back to Pickford so he could kick it blindly upfield, giving the ball away almost every time.
Whenever the opposition had possession at the back England just had Kane and Foden lazily running from side to side, expending their energy but never actually pressuring the defenders into doing anything that gave the ball away.
It just got a bit silly and made England look worse than they actually are.

All the top teams press very well , none of them are sitting back waiting for chances , they are going at the opposition and it’s done in pairs and it causes so many issues

England have the players to press high

 

[Canary_Yellow]

It is hilarious that a bunch of failed Sunday league and computer manager players can post all kinds of tactical advice and complaints about the most successful England manager of all-time in big tournaments. England lost to a better team. And yet most of you think you know more than Gareth Southgate. Hilarious and pathetic.

Go back to posting comments about giving Rory advice about his swing and Scottie about his putting. It's about the same level of stupidity.

And Sherwood is Spurs most successful EPL manager.....

Southgate is as successful as every other England manager that hasn't won a major tournament. Second is just another loser. The FA are probably back slapping this morning over another good tournament, but it's all part of the mentality that stands in the way of us actually winning.

 

[RichA]

All the top teams press very well , none of them are sitting back waiting for chances , they are going at the opposition and it’s done in pairs and it causes so many issues

England have the players to press high

And they all seem to have one or two players who are lightning fast and have licence to occasionally run up the middle. England don't do that. We have the mentality that a counter-attack must involve speculatively hoofing the ball 50 yards or predictably sending someone up the wing without sending anyone else simultaneously up the middle to give them an outlet when they inevitably run out of steam.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812652834220880295

 

[PaulMdj]

All the top teams press very well , none of them are sitting back waiting for chances , they are going at the opposition and it’s done in pairs and it causes so many issues

England have the players to press high

The spanish starting XI had only 2 players playing for Barca or RM, the rest came from across Europe and even Saudi Arabia.

All those teams do play the high press, it’s more down to the fact the Spanish Players fitting how the manager wants them to, subs coming on like for like knowing the system, not substitutes that come on and the rest have to change how they play.

We have absolutely no idea how Pep or Klopp would set up England, they are highly succesful Club managers who have been able to buy players to fit their system.

We simply need a manager who defines how he wants to play in a style that will suit the players he has at his disposal.

They either buy in to it or are not selected.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It needs a new manager with new ideas, new tactics and a clear method of play. The majority of the side are young enough to be around for many tournaments to come and so this is the time to learn from the mistakes of previous "golden generations" and utilize their abilities akin to tactical nous to built the best sides

 

[Pin-seeker]

Be surprised if a top club doesn’t come in for Nico Williams.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Be surprised if a top club doesn’t come in for Nico Williams.

Barcelona are all over him. Just waiting for the tournament to finish for it to be sealed.

 

[Swango1980]

The short answer is - yes the players are more than good enough to win national tournaments

The players playing in the biggest clubs in England , Spain and Germany

But none of them are playing in the roles or tactics where they excel

If either Klopp or Pep had that team this is how they would line up


Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Shaw/Chilwell

Rice
Bellingham
Foden

Saka
Kane/Palmer
Gordon


The difference they would be doing is

The full backs would be the width and be high up the pitch - there would be a DM sitting in the middle covering the fullbacks as they support

Bellingham would be the energy , the box to box in the middle with Foden as a 10 floating and either Kane staying high as the forward or Palmer as a false 9

That’s how they would set up

Add into that a more positive mindset where the players would be taking it to the opposition

And even more crucial - high intensity pressing onto the opposition- the likes of palmer , Saka , Gordon , supported by Bellingham and Foden pressing onto their backline

And then even the full backs getting involved - two of the biggest pressers in the Liverpool team are the full backs

The issue is they need to do it without fear , be braver and that’s the biggest issue - Southgate has a “must not lose” approach and mindset when he starts the game and things really only change when he starts to panic and they go behind

England have the players and ability to win tournaments- they need a mindset and manager to bring it together

I should have stopped after your first line, when you gave us the short answer.

Pep and Klopp are different people, why assume they would do exactly the same thing? At the end of the day, you aren't speaking on behalf of them, but on behalf of yourself. If YOU were England manager, that is what YOU would do.

I've no doubt Pep and Klopp would do things differently to Southgate, and I'd be confident that they would give us a better, more exciting England to watch. But, they would also throw in some curve balls from time to time. Pep often leaves some big players out of the side, like Foden. So, you could easily see him leave out 2 or 3 big names, to create a bit of balance in the side, keep players on their toes and keep players fresh. Then in the following game, do something quite different.