The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

Df


I'm all for this.

But should be for winners of all the cups

Europa league winners get in

Champ league winners

Premier league winners

Fa cup winners

League cup winners

I wouldn't do the conference as the winners of that get Europa which seems a fair prize

None of this finish 2nd get champs league rubbish

Domestic leagues should just invent lots of different Cup Competitions then

I'd rather they just changed the name of the competition. Elite European Cup or something. If you only had the Champions of leagues, it would be a pretty rubbish season long competition. It would have Man City, Bayern, Barcelona, PSG and Napoli. 5 teams from the top leagues, who probably wouldn't start to play each other until the final stages. Perhaps a few teams just below that that might be able to put up a fight, but mainly the competition would be littered with teams that had no chance. Throw in Champions of other cups might get you a few other teams, although it would be hit and miss how many you get from different nations. If a team like City won a treble or quadruple, you'd maybe only have 1 or 2 English teams in the competition. Meanwhile you might have 6 teams from Estonia that could have lots of cups. Or you could get an upset in a cup competition, and have a team like Wigan playing in the Champions League. Wigan fans would be happy, but I'm not sure they'd generate too much interest or hope.

If it was just Champions of leagues, so many other big clubs would not be there. No Man Utd who have a huge fan base and still would have been in the top half of the odds at the start of the competition to win the thing. And even if you hate Man Utd, it still keeps interest high, because if they do poorly then is generates millions of posts my non Man Utd fans, and generates lots of debate on mainstream media like Talksport. I know Liverpool didn't get in as they were awful last year, but in every year but one they did get a spot (since Champions League began), they weren't champions. Is Europe's Premier Competition better if Liverpool had only appeared in it once in the last 33 years??? (to be fair, I would prefer it that way, but generally I think most would agree having clubs like Liverpool make frequent appearances make it a stronger competition).

No Champions of leagues in the top European comp, this year there'd be no Man Utd, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Inter, Atletico Madrid, Lazio, Dortmund, Milan or Newcastle plus a few other decent sides. And given that clubs that are Champions one season can sometimes struggle the next (currently Man City 4th, Bayern 2nd, Barcelona 4th, PSG 1st, Napoli 6th), then the Champions League with only League Champions could often become a really poor competition. If there was a secondary competition with all those other teams that were not Champions but finished high in their leagues, that could end up becoming the most prestigious trophy.

 

[CountLippe]

Domestic leagues should just invent lots of different Cup Competitions then

I'd rather they just changed the name of the competition. Elite European Cup or something. If you only had the Champions of leagues, it would be a pretty rubbish season long competition. It would have Man City, Bayern, Barcelona, PSG and Napoli. 5 teams from the top leagues, who probably wouldn't start to play each other until the final stages. Perhaps a few teams just below that that might be able to put up a fight, but mainly the competition would be littered with teams that had no chance. Throw in Champions of other cups might get you a few other teams, although it would be hit and miss how many you get from different nations. If a team like City won a treble or quadruple, you'd maybe only have 1 or 2 English teams in the competition. Meanwhile you might have 6 teams from Estonia that could have lots of cups. Or you could get an upset in a cup competition, and have a team like Wigan playing in the Champions League. Wigan fans would be happy, but I'm not sure they'd generate too much interest or hope.

If it was just Champions of leagues, so many other big clubs would not be there. No Man Utd who have a huge fan base and still would have been in the top half of the odds at the start of the competition to win the thing. And even if you hate Man Utd, it still keeps interest high, because if they do poorly then is generates millions of posts my non Man Utd fans, and generates lots of debate on mainstream media like Talksport. I know Liverpool didn't get in as they were awful last year, but in every year but one they did get a spot (since Champions League began), they weren't champions. Is Europe's Premier Competition better if Liverpool had only appeared in it once in the last 33 years??? (to be fair, I would prefer it that way, but generally I think most would agree having clubs like Liverpool make frequent appearances make it a stronger competition).

No Champions of leagues in the top European comp, this year there'd be no Man Utd, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Inter, Atletico Madrid, Lazio, Dortmund, Milan or Newcastle plus a few other decent sides. And given that clubs that are Champions one season can sometimes struggle the next (currently Man City 4th, Bayern 2nd, Barcelona 4th, PSG 1st, Napoli 6th), then the Champions League with only League Champions could often become a really poor competition. If there was a secondary competition with all those other teams that were not Champions but finished high in their leagues, that could end up becoming the most prestigious trophy.

The prestige of the old European cup as much as anything was built around how difficult it was to qualify. The Uefa cup was often harder to win.

Times have changed and talent is not spread as evenly as it used to be so undoubtedly the champions of smaller nations are not the forces they once were so reverting to the format from the 60's - 80's is obviously a non starter.

Having said that, the CL winners will probably play 13 games. An alternative champions only format could be more league based, say 12 games each, with the top 2 playing a final.

 

[GB72]

That is the problem, the competitions have been contrived to involve more and more games to bring in more revenue and so they will only ever expand.

Now that there are more teams competing for the top 4, I am waiting for the next contrivance that almost guarantees all the 'big' teams a place. I suspect that if there were more teams challenging for the top in Spain, that would already have happened but there is little risk of Real and Barcelona not making it.

 

[clubchamp98]

It’s all about money.
They will do what makes the most.
Got nothing to do with football!

 

[nickjdavis]

Was it?

PSG are a pale shadow of the side they were a few years ago, while Milan and Dortmund are well off the pace in their domestic leagues. There was talk yesterday tipping the Milan manager for the sack.

the reality is Newcastle under achieved in their group. Losing 2 out of 3 home games is poor. They will do better in future given their deep pockets, but this was a disappointing campaign, even accounting for injuries.

I don't think you will find too many folk on Tyneside saying it was a disappointing campaign. Only seems to be folks with interests in other clubs who have decided that Newcastle have underperformed and that the place should have gone to a more "worthy" team.

I always remember how poorly Arsenal fared when they started qualifying for European Comps under Wenger in the mid-90's...early exits in the UEFA Cup in two successive years, 3rd place in the group in their first two Champions League campaigns..the 2nd giving them entry into the UEFA cup which they won. Following years they made it through the group stages but didnt progress deep into the competition. It simply took Arsenal time to acclimatise to European football....it was maybe 7 or 8 years before they regularly progressed to the latter knockout stages. Newcastle will just have to go through the same learning process.

 

[Swango1980]

The prestige of the old European cup as much as anything was built around how difficult it was to qualify. The Uefa cup was often harder to win.

Times have changed and talent is not spread as evenly as it used to be so undoubtedly the champions of smaller nations are not the forces they once were so reverting to the format from the 60's - 80's is obviously a non starter.

Having said that, the CL winners will probably play 13 games. An alternative champions only format could be more league based, say 12 games each, with the top 2 playing a final.

Which would make the vast majority of games pretty pointless by the end of the competition

 

[Swango1980]

It’s all about money.
They will do what makes the most.
Got nothing to do with football!

That is life, though. Generally speaking, if they are making more money, it is a pretty good sign of success and it being good for the sport. It means they are having more people interested in investing in it.

I'm pretty sure football is vastly more popular now that it has ever been. I believe you are a Liverpool fan. I'm sure you've had many enjoyable nights in the Champions League over the last 30+ years, not least in 2005 in Istanbul. Potentially one of your happiest football memories? Liverpool were only there because "it is all about the money". Would you prefer it if Liverpool had only appeared in the Champions League once in the last 30+ years, in the 2020/21 season. Their first appearance since the 1990/91 season?

Personally, I think the format is much better now that is used to be. As I suggested in earlier post, the Champions of last year's leagues may be nowhere near the best club in their country the following year. Opening it to more of the top teams in the top leagues vastly increases the odds that the Champions League will contain the CURRENT best teams in the big leagues. Plus is significantly attracts the fans of many more big clubs, and thus makes it a much bigger and appealing competition. That has got something to do with football.

 

[Swango1980]

I don't think you will find too many folk on Tyneside saying it was a disappointing campaign. Only seems to be folks with interests in other clubs who have decided that Newcastle have underperformed and that the place should have gone to a more "worthy" team.

I always remember how poorly Arsenal fared when they started qualifying for European Comps under Wenger in the mid-90's...early exits in the UEFA Cup in two successive years, 3rd place in the group in their first two Champions League campaigns..the 2nd giving them entry into the UEFA cup which they won. Following years they made it through the group stages but didnt progress deep into the competition. It simply took Arsenal time to acclimatise to European football....it was maybe 7 or 8 years before they regularly progressed to the latter knockout stages. Newcastle will just have to go through the same learning process.

Not sure Arsenal were the best example, they've still not won it

 

[rudebhoy]

I don't think you will find too many folk on Tyneside saying it was a disappointing campaign. Only seems to be folks with interests in other clubs who have decided that Newcastle have underperformed and that the place should have gone to a more "worthy" team.

I always remember how poorly Arsenal fared when they started qualifying for European Comps under Wenger in the mid-90's...early exits in the UEFA Cup in two successive years, 3rd place in the group in their first two Champions League campaigns..the 2nd giving them entry into the UEFA cup which they won. Following years they made it through the group stages but didnt progress deep into the competition. It simply took Arsenal time to acclimatise to European football....it was maybe 7 or 8 years before they regularly progressed to the latter knockout stages. Newcastle will just have to go through the same learning process.

I'm on Tyneside, and most people i've talked to seem to be of the opinion that they have underperformed. If you asked them at the start whether they would be happy with 1 win in 6, and finishing bottom, I don't think too many would have settled for that.

 

[clubchamp98]

That is life, though. Generally speaking, if they are making more money, it is a pretty good sign of success and it being good for the sport. It means they are having more people interested in investing in it.

I'm pretty sure football is vastly more popular now that it has ever been. I believe you are a Liverpool fan. I'm sure you've had many enjoyable nights in the Champions League over the last 30+ years, not least in 2005 in Istanbul. Potentially one of your happiest football memories? Liverpool were only there because "it is all about the money". Would you prefer it if Liverpool had only appeared in the Champions League once in the last 30+ years, in the 2020/21 season. Their first appearance since the 1990/91 season?

Personally, I think the format is much better now that is used to be. As I suggested in earlier post, the Champions of last year's leagues may be nowhere near the best club in their country the following year. Opening it to more of the top teams in the top leagues vastly increases the odds that the Champions League will contain the CURRENT best teams in the big leagues. Plus is significantly attracts the fans of many more big clubs, and thus makes it a much bigger and appealing competition. That has got something to do with football.

That’s basically a separate Super League.


Ill add it’s about the TV now as well.

But you might be right.

 

[Swango1980]

That’s basically a separate Super League.


Ill add it’s about the TV now as well.

But you might be right.

Just to clarify, I was saying that I much prefer the format now than in the past, not that I endorse a European Super League or that I'm a fan of what they will do in the future. I've not fully wrapped my head around the future changes, although it sounds weird where they seem to be in one big group but not everyone plays everyone.

TV is important. It is reported that Man Utd have 660 million fans globally. The attendance at Old Trafford (including away fans) is only about 75,000. Liverpool have a reported global fanbase of 580 million, Anfield has a capacity of around 62,000. So, if it wasn't for TV, at least 99.99% of football fans of those clubs would not be able to see their club play live, let alone fans of other clubs watching your club as a neutral (or as an admirer / hater).

 

[GB72]

Just to clarify, I was saying that I much prefer the format now than in the past, not that I endorse a European Super League or that I'm a fan of what they will do in the future. I've not fully wrapped my head around the future changes, although it sounds weird where they seem to be in one big group but not everyone plays everyone.

TV is important. It is reported that Man Utd have 660 million fans globally. The attendance at Old Trafford (including away fans) is only about 75,000. Liverpool have a reported global fanbase of 580 million, Anfield has a capacity of around 62,000. So, if it wasn't for TV, at least 99.99% of football fans of those clubs would not be able to see their club play live, let alone fans of other clubs watching your club as a neutral (or as an admirer / hater).

Interesting points.

Is there not an argument to say that if the Premier League and Champions League were not so widely available globally, there may be more emphasis on supporting and developing your home leagues.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just to clarify, I was saying that I much prefer the format now than in the past, not that I endorse a European Super League or that I'm a fan of what they will do in the future. I've not fully wrapped my head around the future changes, although it sounds weird where they seem to be in one big group but not everyone plays everyone.

TV is important. It is reported that Man Utd have 660 million fans globally. The attendance at Old Trafford (including away fans) is only about 75,000. Liverpool have a reported global fanbase of 580 million, Anfield has a capacity of around 62,000. So, if it wasn't for TV, at least 99.99% of football fans of those clubs would not be able to see their club play live, let alone fans of other clubs watching your club as a neutral (or as an admirer / hater).

Kick off times don’t give a dam about the fans! ( Match going anyway)

Its why Klopp has been asking why we play so many early kickoffs.

It’s about the money !,,

 

[Beezerk]

I'm on Tyneside, and most people i've talked to seem to be of the opinion that they have underperformed. If you asked them at the start whether they would be happy with 1 win in 6, and finishing bottom, I don't think too many would have settled for that.

Absolute opposite of what my Toon supporting friends are feeling, they are all gutted but massively proud of what the team has achieved given their current injury situation.
On the flip side, my Sunderland supporting mates are loving it

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm on Tyneside, and most people i've talked to seem to be of the opinion that they have underperformed. If you asked them at the start whether they would be happy with 1 win in 6, and finishing bottom, I don't think too many would have settled for that.

Absolute opposite of what my Toon supporting friends are feeling, they are all gutted but massively proud of what the team has achieved given their current injury situation.
On the flip side, my Sunderland supporting mates are loving it

To be fair, I'm hearing the same as @Beezerk .

I'm not sure Sunderland fans can get too cocky. Bristol City away for them this weekend..........

 

[clubchamp98]

Absolute opposite of what my Toon supporting friends are feeling, they are all gutted but massively proud of what the team has achieved given their current injury situation.
On the flip side, my Sunderland supporting mates are loving it

Yes .
International break and two games a week just caught up with them.

 

[Swango1980]

Interesting points.

Is there not an argument to say that if the Premier League and Champions League were not so widely available globally, there may be more emphasis on supporting and developing your home leagues.

There could well be. Although presumably if you want to build your home leagues into something you are proud off, then you want to somehow challenge them against the home leagues of other countries. And from that evolves some sort of European and World Competitions for club sides.

There is also an argument that if it wasn't for TV, worldwide fans would know much less about clubs from other parts of the world / country and support their local club side. But then, football was probably a bit like that at the end of the 19th century when league football began. But, football grew and grew as it was able to reach out to more people. In the newspapers, radio, highlights on TV and then to where we are now where many of us can watch almost constant live football, and when there is none on tune into Talksport where they talk about football almost 24 hours a day, or to any other media of your choosing.

So, it is an interesting debate. If football wasn't widely available worldwide, then presumably places like USA, China and Saudi Arabia would not really get exposed to the Premier League and Champions League. Would this mean that countries like this would be more willing to invest in their own home leagues? Well, as we see, they've invested heavily in their own home leagues, and I imagine the very reason they did was because they saw how successful the PL and other top leagues were. Otherwise, what about other countries. Would Pakistan, Australia, Vietnam, Congo, etc invest more time in their home leagues if it wasn't for the Premier League. I doubt it. They either don't really care to do so regardless, or don't really have the resources to focus a lot of attention in such projects.

 

[Swango1980]

Kick off times don’t give a dam about the fans! ( Match going anyway)

Its why Klopp has been asking why we play so many early kickoffs.

It’s about the money !,,

Klopp is a bit of a joke though, to be fair.

He doesn't complain about his £15 million salary. Nor did he complain when he couldn't buy Darwin Nunez for €80 million

If Liverpool fans that go to matches really are that annoyed about 12:30 kick offs, then stop moaning. Make a stand and just don't go. If Liverpool are playing in empty stadiums, then I'm sure the authorities will think twice about giving them a 12:30 kick off, as it would look terrible. But, that won't happen. Match going fans will continue to go to these matches, they'll continue to sing songs, they'll continue to cheer when their team do something good and they'll boo and give the V sign when they get annoyed about something.

 

[Golfmmad]

A real shame. They've had a blast, fully embraced the CL but they've run out of steam at just the wrong time.

They certainly gave it everything, you can't ask for more.

I'd echo all of that.
I thought the ref was the best I've seen all season, didn't stand for any nonsense and let the game flow!
Refreshing to see!

 

[rudebhoy]

To be fair, I'm hearing the same as @Beezerk .

Like I said, if you had asked them at the outset if they would settle for 1 win from 6 and bottom of the group, not many would have taken that.