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The Footie Thread

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Dando said:
Why don’t you stop being obtuse(Mod Edit) for for once in your life

I’m just asking a question.

Why is ok for Kane to play against farmers but not Henderson?
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Kane is a world class talent in his prime. He is England's all-time top goalscorer. These things would still be obvious and earn him a grace period of at least one season I would expect. Especially while there's no other England striker anywhere near the same level. After 2, maybe 3 seasons then yes you would hope someone emerges in a proper league to take his place.

Henderson on the other hand is already a bit-part player who is 33. Playing against poor players in a rubbish league will only accelerate his decline and he would be considered old news in a matter of weeks.

How am I being obtuse (Mod Edit) when the point is obvious, has been explained multiple ways, and been understood by most other posters in the thread? I didn't expect that comment from you. 😟
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I can fully understand the Kane/Henderson point being made on a footballing point of view.

That said, based on the stance that the England team has taken on a number of matters and the causes is supports, I would expect, quite rightly, that any player who moved to the Saudi league should be dropped irrespective of the importance to the national team.
 
GB72 said:
I can fully understand the Kane/Henderson point being made on a footballing point of view.

That said, based on the stance that the England team has taken on a number of matters and the causes is supports, I would expect, quite rightly, that any player who moved to the Saudi league should be dropped irrespective of the importance to the national team.
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you can't drop Saint Harry Kane no matter what he does
 
Orikoru said:
Kane is a world class talent in his prime. He is England's all-time top goalscorer. These things would still be obvious and earn him a grace period of at least one season I would expect. Especially while there's no other England striker anywhere near the same level. After 2, maybe 3 seasons then yes you would hope someone emerges in a proper league to take his place.

Henderson on the other hand is already a bit-part player who is 33. Playing against poor players in a rubbish league will only accelerate his decline and he would be considered old news in a matter of weeks.

How am I being a dick when the point is obvious, has been explained multiple ways, and been understood by most other posters in the thread? I didn't expect that comment from you. 😟
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surely, irrespective of who they are, if they are playing against farmers and goat shaggers then the same rules should be applied loo what happened in Rugby when players went abroad for the money

Ok Kane will still fall over and "win" penalties but playing against the likes of me at CB wont do him any favours when it comes to playing against a decent team
 
Orikoru said:
Kane is a world class talent in his prime. He is England's all-time top goalscorer. These things would still be obvious and earn him a grace period of at least one season I would expect. Especially while there's no other England striker anywhere near the same level. After 2, maybe 3 seasons then yes you would hope someone emerges in a proper league to take his place.

Henderson on the other hand is already a bit-part player who is 33. Playing against poor players in a rubbish league will only accelerate his decline and he would be considered old news in a matter of weeks.

How am I being a dick when the point is obvious, has been explained multiple ways, and been understood by most other posters in the thread? I didn't expect that comment from you. 😟
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So the simple point is - that Southgate will make a judgment on each player seperately regardless of where that player is playing which was the point being made to you

A player going to Saudi league doesn’t automatically stop him from being picked for England.

the other way it can be a blanket stop is as was mentioned earlier that England take a moral standpoint and state that any player going to Saudi will no longer be considered

But it will be the same if a player went to the MLS or China etc - if they are player week in week out and keeping their fitness up then Southgate imo will pick a player regardless of where he is playing irrelevant of the opposition. And looking at the players going to the Saudi League there are going to be a lot of quality players there
 
Dando said:
surely, irrespective of who they are, if they are playing against farmers and goat shaggers then the same rules should be applied loo what happened in Rugby when players went abroad for the money

Ok Kane will still fall over and "win" penalties but playing against the likes of me at CB wont do him any favours when it comes to playing against a decent team
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If Kane for some bizarre reason went to Saudi in his prime, he'd still be the best English striker for a period. As I said, maybe after a year, 18-months he'd start to be phased out as he hadn't played any decent competitive football in that time. Whereas Henderson is already past his best, but was clinging on and getting call-ups because he was at least playing for a top side in a top league. Once that is gone, then so is he.

Liverpoolphil said:
So the simple point is - that Southgate will make a judgment on each player seperately regardless of where that player is playing which was the point being made to you

A player going to Saudi league doesn’t automatically stop him from being picked for England.

the other way it can be a blanket stop is as was mentioned earlier that England take a moral standpoint and state that any player going to Saudi will no longer be considered

But it will be the same if a player went to the MLS or China etc - if they are player week in week out and keeping their fitness up then Southgate imo will pick a player regardless of where he is playing irrelevant of the opposition. And looking at the players going to the Saudi League there are going to be a lot of quality players there
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Of course he will, but how on earth could he possibly deem Henderson to be playing better than say, Phillips or Gallagher when the quality of opposition is so much poorer? It would be like calling someone up to the England team who is playing brilliantly in League One. They might be good enough but it would be hard to say for sure. I'd expect him to show preference to someone who's performing in the Premier League, that's all.
 
If you join a retirement league you can't expect to stay relevant to international football. The MLS, SA, China, are all signs that you have given up on serious level football.

You might get picked for the first squad after moving but not for much longer. Anyway, in terms of Henderson, there are other options for Southgate so if he does decide to move and play low level football then Southgate doesn't need to take the risk of picking him. Henderson will know this before / if he moves. He might be from Sunderland but he isn't that stupid :LOL:
 
Lord Tyrion said:
If you join a retirement league you can't expect to stay relevant to international football. The MLS, SA, China, are all signs that you have given up on serious level football.

You might get picked for the first squad after moving but not for much longer. Anyway, in terms of Henderson, there are other options for Southgate so if he does decide to move and play low level football then Southgate doesn't need to take the risk of picking him. Henderson will know this before / if he moves. He might be from Sunderland but he isn't that stupid :LOL:
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unless your Harry Kane
 
Dando said:
surely, irrespective of who they are, if they are playing against farmers and goat shaggers then the same rules should be applied loo what happened in Rugby when players went abroad for the money

Ok Kane will still fall over and "win" penalties but playing against the likes of me at CB wont do him any favours when it comes to playing against a decent team
Click to expand...

Not sure on the rugby analogy. That is in place to try and retain English taken in the English Leagues and also has implications on player releases for international matches as rugby continues at a league level during international weeks. It is easy to argue that playing in France is currently a higher level.

Who knows what would happen but my gut feeling is that England would ideally not pick players who move to the Saudi league but exceptions may well be made for the very best so, yes, I think Kane would be picked unless his form fell off a cliff but anyone less important to the team or with a straight replacement would probably being saying goodbye to their international career.
 
Dando said:
unless your Harry Kane
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He isn't going to go there at this stage though so it is a hypothetical that wont happen. In 2-3 years time then maybe he will but right now he is still relevant. If he moves it will be to Bayern or PSG, earn gazillions and win trophies, the one thing he is missing. Trophies from the Saudi league are meaningless and he knows it.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
He isn't going to go there at this stage though so it is a hypothetical that wont happen. In 2-3 years time then maybe he will but right now he is still relevant. If he moves it will be to Bayern or PSG, earn gazillions and win trophies, the one thing he is missing. Trophies from the Saudi league are meaningless and he knows it.
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i know he's not but it was brought up that if he did he should still be considered regardless
 
Liverpoolphil said:
So the simple point is - that Southgate will make a judgment on each player seperately regardless of where that player is playing which was the point being made to you

A player going to Saudi league doesn’t automatically stop him from being picked for England.

the other way it can be a blanket stop is as was mentioned earlier that England take a moral standpoint and state that any player going to Saudi will no longer be considered

But it will be the same if a player went to the MLS or China etc - if they are player week in week out and keeping their fitness up then Southgate imo will pick a player regardless of where he is playing irrelevant of the opposition. And looking at the players going to the Saudi League there are going to be a lot of quality players there
Click to expand...
That has always been the case.

If Pickford warmed the bench at his club all the time, or various other players, Southgate would most likely never consider them. He'd have players like Pope or Ramsdale that have a high enough profile to step into the GK role. If Maguire warms the bench, he still gets picked because Southgate does not see a better alternative. If Kane warmed the bench (say, if he had gone to City and Haaland was getting picked ahead of him), he'd probably still easily get picked for England for quite a while. At least until he has a string of poor England performances.

The original point in the Henderson case is that he, HENDERSON, is the profile of player that if he was to move to the Championship or go in play in Saudi Arabia, USA, Japan, etc. then he'd simply be overlooked for England. Just like several other England players. KANE is the type of player who would definitely still be considered for England. There are many Portuguese players that would end their national hopes if they moved to Saudi Arabia. But RONALDO was the type of player that was still going to be considered.

For anyone failing to understand Orikoru's point, you are simply failing to understand or ignoring the subject of the point. You think he is saying "any player that moves to Saudi Arabia will rule themselves out of the England reckoning". It isn't what he said. The subject of his point was clearly HENDERSON himself, so shifting the context to other players like Kane is irrelevant.
 
Dando said:
surely, irrespective of who they are, if they are playing against farmers and goat shaggers then the same rules should be applied loo what happened in Rugby when players went abroad for the money

Ok Kane will still fall over and "win" penalties but playing against the likes of me at CB wont do him any favours when it comes to playing against a decent team
Click to expand...
Rugby did it to keep the English in the English game. Not because the French league (where most went) was poor.

I gotta say I side with ori on this. Long term it would t be great as he'd likely lose sharpness, but comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Ideally none would go over there.
 
Messi didn’t go to SA because his wife didn’t want to. I assume they have laxer laws for rich people there too, but why take any restrictions to living elsewhere at all.
At a level of player they look for in SA, they can play anywhere for decent money with all the liberties they want. Earn 2 million in Manchester, Munich, Paris, Milan and live in a city for your WAG to enjoy beats 8 Million living in a compound. They should have reserves at this point.
If I were a retiring footballer MLS would be the way. Good money for name recognition over current skill, and liberties (for the time being).
 
Ive missed a lot of this discussion but if anyone actually thinks "Jobs for the boys" Southgate isn't picking Henderson in his England squads then please let me have some of what you're smoking...

The man time and time again just changes the goalposts to get the players he trusts into the England team and that wont change with Hendo playing a year in Saudi.

Obvs should post Euro 2024 but before hand - not a chance IMO.
 
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