The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

Are there any Preston NE fans on the forum - or have they all been bored to death by their team this season? 8 games in and they have had 5 0-0 draws all ready. The other three games were all decided by 1 goal )2 wins, 1 defeat).

Not much entertainment in seeing 3 goals in 8 games, must be a long 90 minutes in some of those matches.

Only 1 defeat in 8 though

 

[paddyc]

not today they didnt mate

we played some lovely football at times but were wasteful upfront, naive at the back and even more naive from the manager!!!

against a side who had one main threat we continued to overcommit and allow them the longer ball counter attack with pace. At 1-1 we shouldve controlled the ball and game instead we went gung ho for no reason and as soon as we conceded Arteta committed hari kari with his subs

we'll play worse and win for sure but we were our own worst enemies today

Agreed mate but in terms of possession and passing and chances created we were the better team

 

[Piece]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566463534518730753

Least they have admitted they were wrong .

This is just lip-service to pour water over the fire that is mass VAR hysteria.

What are they going to discuss that was "wrong"? The Refs opinion that in the eyes of the law they think they made the right decision in the first place or listen to the ex-pros going overboard saying its shocking and scandalous?

It's a fact of a ref's life that their opinion is not going to please every single person in the footballing world. MotD et al tend to hone in on the 3% or so of potentially contentious decisions, conveniently ignoring the fact that they get 97% of decisions right. It's never ever going to be 100% correct as subjective decisions are exactly that - subjective. There's no absolute. I get that some decisions will be marginal, but you only have to listen to opposing managers, players, pundits about what they think about VAR - it's great when it goes their way or for their team and scandalous when it doesn't. They are part of the problem.

What is "ruining the game" is this over the top reaction to some decisions. Scrapping VAR to go back to where we were will make the situation worse - there were universal calls for VAR years ago as decisions were costing manager's jobs (not the fact that they bought poorly and their multi million pound striker dives and can't hit a cow's rear end with a banjo). Now we have it, we seem to focussing in on exceptions and making that a major thing.

Lastly, this rubbish about getting ex pros involved in VAR is hog-wash. They may "know the game" but a lot simply just don't know the laws (Danny Murphy on Sat on the Villa disallowed goal, "not offside...as the ball went backwards..." Really, Danny, is that what you know about the offside law being an ex-top pro?). Train-up pro to become world class qualified refs, understand why fouls are fouls, etc., then ex-pros have a case for being involved and adding value; until then stay out of VAR.

Rant off.

 

[PJ87]

This is just lip-service to pour water over the fire that is mass VAR hysteria.

What are they going to discuss that was "wrong"? The Refs opinion that in the eyes of the law they think they made the right decision in the first place or listen to the ex-pros going overboard saying its shocking and scandalous?

It's a fact of a ref's life that their opinion is not going to please every single person in the footballing world. MotD et al tend to hone in on the 3% or so of potentially contentious decisions, conveniently ignoring the fact that they get 97% of decisions right. It's never ever going to be 100% correct as subjective decisions are exactly that - subjective. There's no absolute. I get that some decisions will be marginal, but you only have to listen to opposing managers, players, pundits about what they think about VAR - it's great when it goes their way or for their team and scandalous when it doesn't. They are part of the problem.

What is "ruining the game" is this over the top reaction to some decisions. Scrapping VAR to go back to where we were will make the situation worse - there were universal calls for VAR years ago as decisions were costing manager's jobs (not the fact that they bought poorly and their multi million pound striker dives and can't hit a cow's rear end with a banjo). Now we have it, we seem to focussing in on exceptions and making that a major thing.

Lastly, this rubbish about getting ex pros involved in VAR is hog-wash. They may "know the game" but a lot simply just don't know the laws (Danny Murphy on Sat on the Villa disallowed goal, "not offside...as the ball went backwards..." Really, Danny, is that what you know about the offside law being an ex-top pro?). Train-up pro to become world class qualified refs, understand why fouls are fouls, etc., then ex-pros have a case for being involved and adding value; until then stay out of VAR.

Rant off.

Whilst many of these above are good points it doesn't relate to what I posted.

Ex pros involved , bad idea. Bias will come in

Scrap var, bad idea

The use of var ATM isn't good . Those two goals disallowed that they have admitted were wrongly disallowed were not part of the scope for var, they weren't a clear and obvious error

If we could hear the convo between the ref team like rugby maybe we could understand more

Ie here Mick (ref) did you see the potential foul on the keeper in build up there

Yes Dave I did. In my view it wasn't ...

Job done no error

Or no I missed it I'd like to see what you mean .. Mick goes to monitor to see if he was right or wrong

What seems to be consistent in the ex ref views is the decision was influenced by play acting by the keeper , I swear we have seen many a goal with a keeper down injured why worried so much about it when he was barely touched? Imagine if Bowen hadn't attempted to jump over him he would have been rolling around a lot more

 

[Orikoru]

This is just lip-service to pour water over the fire that is mass VAR hysteria.

What are they going to discuss that was "wrong"? The Refs opinion that in the eyes of the law they think they made the right decision in the first place or listen to the ex-pros going overboard saying its shocking and scandalous?

It's a fact of a ref's life that their opinion is not going to please every single person in the footballing world. MotD et al tend to hone in on the 3% or so of potentially contentious decisions, conveniently ignoring the fact that they get 97% of decisions right. It's never ever going to be 100% correct as subjective decisions are exactly that - subjective. There's no absolute. I get that some decisions will be marginal, but you only have to listen to opposing managers, players, pundits about what they think about VAR - it's great when it goes their way or for their team and scandalous when it doesn't. They are part of the problem.

What is "ruining the game" is this over the top reaction to some decisions. Scrapping VAR to go back to where we were will make the situation worse - there were universal calls for VAR years ago as decisions were costing manager's jobs (not the fact that they bought poorly and their multi million pound striker dives and can't hit a cow's rear end with a banjo). Now we have it, we seem to focussing in on exceptions and making that a major thing.

Lastly, this rubbish about getting ex pros involved in VAR is hog-wash. They may "know the game" but a lot simply just don't know the laws (Danny Murphy on Sat on the Villa disallowed goal, "not offside...as the ball went backwards..." Really, Danny, is that what you know about the offside law being an ex-top pro?). Train-up pro to become world class qualified refs, understand why fouls are fouls, etc., then ex-pros have a case for being involved and adding value; until then stay out of VAR.

Rant off.

You could forgive a decision like the Palace Newcastle one before VAR, it would have been easy to miss the shove in real time. With VAR though I don't think it's forgivable. We are putting up with 3 minute or more delays to the game, so the trade-off is supposed to be that they at least get the decision right - somehow they're still not doing that. On video the push by the Palace defender is clear as day. I honestly don't know how it's been missed. But I also don't know what the answer is, because I agree that just putting ex-players in charge of VAR probably isn't that helpful unless they undergo the full training that would be required to actually be an official.

 

[Swango1980]

Whilst many of these above are good points it doesn't relate to what I posted.

Ex pros involved , bad idea. Bias will come in

Scrap var, bad idea

The use of var ATM isn't good . Those two goals disallowed that they have admitted were wrongly disallowed were not part of the scope for var, they weren't a clear and obvious error

If we could hear the convo between the ref team like rugby maybe we could understand more

Ie here Mick (ref) did you see the potential foul on the keeper in build up there

Yes Dave I did. In my view it wasn't ...

Job done no error

Or no I missed it I'd like to see what you mean .. Mick goes to monitor to see if he was right or wrong

What seems to be consistent in the ex ref views is the decision was influenced by play acting by the keeper , I swear we have seen many a goal with a keeper down injured why worried so much about it when he was barely touched? Imagine if Bowen hadn't attempted to jump over him he would have been rolling around a lot more

Maybe they could, at the least, have two VAR guys behind the scenes? Perhaps that would stop issues where you have one guy that thinks the referee needs to review something, but if they had a colleague sitting with them they could stop them in their tracks by quickly questioning them behind the scenes. Once the on-pitch referee is alerted, and the whole world has their eyes on them, they are then under extra pressure to reverse the decision. Having 2 guys in VAR will at least help them both agree an "obvious" mistake has been made. If they both don't agree, it sort of helps define it as an unclear issue, don't bother the on pitch ref.

Alternatively, review Lee Mason's role as a VAR ref. It seems to be that in many of the biggest VAR mistakes this weekend, and in the past, Lee Mason is often mentioned as the guy on VAR.

 

[Jensen]

Oh joy, Diego Costa is coming back to the premier league

Horrible to play against but great in your side.
Whose he linked with ?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

The actual software isn’t the issue, its the standard of referees who are left making the decisions and how they apply them.

Until the standard of refereeing improves, VAR will continually expose them for how inept they are.

 

[fundy]

Horrible to play against but great in your side.
Whose he linked with ?

Having a medical at Wolves on all accounts

 

[Swango1980]

Having a medical at Wolves on all accounts

I hear he hasn't been contracted with a club for quite some time. Wonder what he has been up to?

 

[Jimaroid]

Finally! Some nice supper time reading.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566841306881708032

 

[Dando]

I hear he hasn't been contracted with a club for quite some time. Wonder what he has been up to?

Fighting in an empty room

 

[Tashyboy]

surprise

Finally! Some nice supper time reading.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566841306881708032

i remember this from the other week and it was this link that I requested to be posted. So cheers Jim. It is one of the best posts on here re VAR for months. it is lengthy. To that end I wonder how many have read it.
Bottom line, the prem league have had some concern over the standard of referees, VAR decisions and the running of VAR for some time. What a surprise. To say that players should not be involved with VAR because they don’t know the rules. Reading that link it seems some referees are struggling with the rules. After some of the screw ups, some refs are not getting a game this weekend and some are not sitting as VAR Officials. ? Am sure a weekend at the beach will sort the incompetence out.
One of the reasons I jacked in going to games was VAR Being implemented at games and fans/ me sat there for 2,3,4 minutes not knowing what the hell was going on. Yet on TV you know exactly what is going off. It was purgatory. It got to the stage where high octane games were rammel due to not knowing whether to celebrate goals or not. However in that ESPN link it explains how German bundesliga football runs VAR. Fans are kept in the loop. Referees are interviewEd after games.
VAR has a long way to go in this country to be accepted coz at the moment it is rammel.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Just watching the Boro Sunderland game.... I wonder how a weekend of all the championship refs getting the premier League games would go. This fella doesn't seem to fall for any nonsense, don't give "soft" free kicks... Just waves away and tells them to get up. Very very refreshing.

 

[fundy]

Just watching the Boro Sunderland game.... I wonder how a weekend of all the championship refs getting the premier League games would go. This fella doesn't seem to fall for any nonsense, don't give "soft" free kicks... Just waves away and tells them to get up. Very very refreshing.

could probably get a game up front for Sunderland too lol, geez theyve been awful

 

[Jimaroid]

Yep Tashy, VAR has a long way to go. As do referees. As do professional footballers. As do the laws of the game. I think the problems are intertwined and we’re seeing the resulting mess in combinations of problems. To me VAR has just amplified problems that have always been on the pitch.

Personally I think it stems from the laws having too much subjectivity in them. The poorly defined definition and interpretation of a players arm for handball is a good example. Sometimes I don’t see how any two referees can ever come to the same consistent decision - because the laws have subjectivity in them.

It’s a discussion that will never end. VAR has to exist due to the level the game has become financially IMO. But I can see how it’s also wrecking football for the match goers.

Like everyone I think if we could get consistency we would at least know where we stand week to week. But this flip flopping and uncertainty needs sorted out as it’s turning into a cancer plaguing every game.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Yep Tashy, VAR has a long way to go. As do referees. As do professional footballers. As do the laws of the game. I think the problems are intertwined and we’re seeing the resulting mess in combinations of problems. To me VAR has just amplified problems that have always been on the pitch.

Personally I think it stems from the laws having too much subjectivity in them. The poorly defined definition and interpretation of a players arm for handball is a good example. Sometimes I don’t see how any two referees can ever come to the same consistent decision - because the laws have subjectivity in them.

It’s a discussion that will never end. VAR has to exist due to the level the game has become financially IMO. But I can see how it’s also wrecking football for the match goers.

Like everyone I think if we could get consistency we would at least know where we stand week to week. But this flip flopping and uncertainty needs sorted out as it’s turning into a cancer plaguing every game.

And herein lies the biggest problem. For as much as we berate referees about what they get wrong, and rightly so in certain circumstances, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think that when they are trying to sort out 22 conmen they actually do bloody well to get as much right as they do.

In respect of the game I was at, there were complaints that the keeper stayed down unnecessarily to try & buy the free kick. If he did, he was only afforded that opportunity because the incoming forward trailed a leg into him to try & buy the penalty (he turns round & starts to appeal until he realises they have the ball). Hurdle the keeper (and he could have done) and you get your point.

Throughout the game players were going down like they'd been shot, despite being built like brick houses. Wrestling; sly digs; feigning injury; life threatening cramp; you name it, it went on. And one referee & two assistants trying to sort it all out in an atmosphere of fans and players baying in their ears.

So is it the officials and VAR to blame; or the players, and their coaches? I've watched a fair bit of professional youth football and it doesn't seem to be there, and the referees seem to do a better job, despite being less experienced. But it changes at full professional level.

As the old song says, when you point your finger, there's three more fingers pointing back at you; is it time players and coaches looked in the mirror and took some responsibility for this mess? And do the pundits with their "he was entitled to go down" bull also bear some responsibility?

 

[Blue in Munich]

I’m maybe going against the Majority here, but I think it was a free kick to Chelsea, Bowen never had to leave his foot in, very soft though.
Newcastle one on the other hand was an absolute shocker.
Van Dijk should of been a red as well, that’s a shocking challenge.

Was Bowen actually as bad as VVD? Got him with the leading foot and left the trailing foot in.



But the keeper was hamming it up...

And VAR was wrong to award the keeper the free kick...

Winston Churchill wasn't wrong.

 

[BrianM]

Was Bowen actually as bad as VVD? Got him with the leading foot and left the trailing foot in.

View attachment 44194

But the keeper was hamming it up...

And VAR was wrong to award the keeper the free kick...

Winston Churchill wasn't wrong.

It was the correct decision, Bowen should of hurdled him and they have a draw.
I’m not sure why the governing body said they got it wrong.

 

[PJ87]

Was Bowen actually as bad as VVD? Got him with the leading foot and left the trailing foot in.

View attachment 44194

But the keeper was hamming it up...

And VAR was wrong to award the keeper the free kick...

Winston Churchill wasn't wrong.

So the officials have come out and said it was wrong decision.

Fans always moan the game has gone that it's becoming a non contact sport

Yet people still holding onto fact they think it's the correct call?