That’s it, I’m getting lessons!

[bobmac]

3 questions if I may...
1. Where is your ball teed up in relation to your front foot, big toe, instep, heel or further back?
2. At the end of your swing, is your weight on the inside or outside of your front foot?
3. Have you had your grip checked?

 

[timd77]

3 questions if I may...
1. Where is your ball teed up in relation to your front foot, big toe, instep, heel or further back?
2. At the end of your swing, is your weight on the inside or outside of your front foot?
3. Have you had your grip checked?

Hi Bob,

1 - I tinker with ball position but it’s generally in line with my heel

2 - normally outside if I haven’t lost my balance

3 - not since I had a beginner lesson aged 15! I’m 43 now. Again, I’ve been tinkering with a strong left hand and a neutral left hand.

I’ve probably created this problem myself, too much tinkering!

 

[bobmac]

Hi Bob,

1 - I tinker with ball position but it’s generally in line with my heel

2 - normally outside if I haven’t lost my balance

3 - not since I had a beginner lesson aged 15! I’m 43 now. Again, I’ve been tinkering with a strong left hand and a neutral left hand.

I’ve probably created this problem myself, too much tinkering!

It does sound like you are getting ahead of the ball at impact.
That steepens the angle of attack causing the out to in swing which combined with an iffy grip means sometimes the face is open and sometimes closed at impact.
Try moving the ball forward 2-3in and try and get the grip more neutral.
During the swing, try and finish with your weight on the inside of your front foot.
The chair drill below will help.
Try not to move the chair.

These little changes in set up will help you get more height and the grip will help you present the clubface more consistently square to the ball at impact
Hope this helps

 

[timd77]

It does sound like you are getting ahead of the ball at impact.
That steepens the angle of attack causing the out to in swing which combined with an iffy grip means sometimes the face is open and sometimes closed at impact.
Try moving the ball forward 2-3in and try and get the grip more neutral.
During the swing, try and finish with your weight on the inside of your front foot.
The chair drill below will help.
Try not to move the chair.

These little changes in set up will help you get more height and the grip will help you present the clubface more consistently square to the ball at impact
Hope this helps

Thanks Bob, planning on a range session this week so will give these a go. Just to confirm:

Move the ball 2-3 inches, so we’re talking in line with big toe ish?

 

[bobmac]

Thanks Bob, planning on a range session this week so will give these a go. Just to confirm:

Move the ball 2-3 inches, so we’re talking in line with big toe ish?

Definitely , at least to start with.
If it gets too high, bring it back a touch

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Bob speaks wisdom so try it, maybe for a couple of sessions and feed back to him. Then if it isn't working get a lesson

 

[bobmac]

Then if it isn't working get a lesson

The op has 3 bad shots, low hook, low slice, and skys the ball, that means sometimes the clubface is open and sometimes closed. That suggests an iffy grip which the op later confirmed.
If you hit a slice, it normally means the clubface is open to an out to in swingpath which adds loft which is why a slice normally goes high. But the op hits it low which means somehow he is delofting the clubface at impact. The op confirmed he is getting ahead of the ball when he said ''normally outside if I haven’t lost my balance''
So if he is too far ahead of the ball, there's no way he can hit up on the ball. In this case, the opposite is true, he is hitting down on the ball....confirmed again by the op when he admitted taking divots and skying the ball occasionally.

So without seeing the swing and after asking a few questions I would make an educated guess that he drives too far past the ball with a steep angle of attack using a grip that doesn't present the clubface square to the ball consistently.
So the cure is to get a neutral grip, move the ball forward a touch which, using the drill I gave him will help him stay more behind the ball at impact.
Outcome.....the ball will go higher with a consistent ball flight (probably a fade).

It will work.

Unless of course you believe those on here who think pros don't know anything about the golf swing.

 

[Diamond]

I was in a similar position a couple of months ago and was in total meltdown. I booked 6 lessons with a pro and He has changed my swing.My swing now is less steep, I rotate my hips more which means I am less “all arms” and more importantly I understand my swing. I can now hit a solid 8 iron and at times 150 yard carry, straight, it takes time and practice and I try and practice my hip rotation at home as much as possible. Moved onto the driver recently and again I understand my swing more and why I hit a bad shot. The first thing he did was tweak grip stance and ball position. This stopped my slice altogether with all club, introduced a pull shot but I know this is me using my hands on down swing and closing the face. Good luck with the lessons.

 

[timd77]

It does sound like you are getting ahead of the ball at impact.
That steepens the angle of attack causing the out to in swing which combined with an iffy grip means sometimes the face is open and sometimes closed at impact.
Try moving the ball forward 2-3in and try and get the grip more neutral.
During the swing, try and finish with your weight on the inside of your front foot.
The chair drill below will help.
Try not to move the chair.

These little changes in set up will help you get more height and the grip will help you present the clubface more consistently square to the ball at impact
Hope this helps

Hi Bob

Went to the range tonight, tried all of the above suggested apart from the chair (it was packed and couldn’t see any chairs about).

Set up with what I felt was a neutral grip, ball position in line with big toe. I hit most of them well to start off with but was pulling them maybe 20 yards left and still quite low. Tried widening my stance, this resulted it massive high pulls (50 yards left). Went back to shoulder width stance and the low ish pulls came back. Nothing destructive and certainly playable, but not the nice high and straight ish ones we all want.

I then put a club down to check my stance/line at address, found they were pointing slight across the target line? Assume this is what was creating the pull?

So I kept the club there to line me up properly (felt as though I was open) and also gradually weakened my grip, and started to hit higher and straighter shots, some fades.

As for keeping my finish weight on the inside of the left foot, I struggled with this a little, definitely a case that I could feel the weight on the outside.

Early days, will keep working at it, but seem to be making some progress.

Just thought I’d give you an update, thanks for the advice ??

 

[Diamond]

Hi Bob

Went to the range tonight, tried all of the above suggested apart from the chair (it was packed and couldn’t see any chairs about).

Set up with what I felt was a neutral grip, ball position in line with big toe. I hit most of them well to start off with but was pulling them maybe 20 yards left and still quite low. Tried widening my stance, this resulted it massive high pulls (50 yards left). Went back to shoulder width stance and the low ish pulls came back. Nothing destructive and certainly playable, but not the nice high and straight ish ones we all want.

I then put a club down to check my stance/line at address, found they were pointing slight across the target line? Assume this is what was creating the pull?

So I kept the club there to line me up properly (felt as though I was open) and also gradually weakened my grip, and started to hit higher and straighter shots, some fades.

As for keeping my finish weight on the inside of the left foot, I struggled with this a little, definitely a case that I could feel the weight on the outside.

Early days, will keep working at it, but seem to be making some progress.

Just thought I’d give you an update, thanks for the advice ??

The pull is what I was doing with my irons. Swing slowly into an empty box and stop at contact and look at your club face. Mine was closed at impact due to my hands turning the face. I practice hitting a box to make sure I keep the face straight at impact. This seems to work for me at least.

 

[bobmac]

Good to hear you're seeing the improvements.
The key now is patience.
You can't fix everything at once so focus on one thing at a time.
Reduce the amount of sway and you will not only improve the ball flight but you will turn better and you will hit the ball better more consistently.

Note below how the centre of the body is behind the front foot


The shots left are caused by the out to in swing but you can aim right to compensate for that for the time being.

 

[OneEyeRon]

Has anyone had lessons over at Windlesham (in Surrey)? If so, would they recommend or if not would they recommend any alternatives nearby?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Has anyone had lessons over at Windlesham (in Surrey)? If so, would they recommend or if not would they recommend any alternatives nearby?

I know Richard Bishton as he was our assistant professional before he joined Windlesham. He teaches a couple of our members who rate him very highly. As an alternative I thoroughly recommend Andrew Piper at Lavender Park in Ascot

 

[timd77]

Update on this - I had a lesson yesterday as I couldn’t fix the problems myself.

Went along for 30 minute lesson, he asked if I was concerned about something in particular so told him that I hit my irons fairly well, but my driving is destructive. A good drive is a low flight at best which works in summer but not enough carry in winter. Usual bad shot is either very low or a low pull. Occasionally sky it.

So I hit some shots with my 7 iron, all pretty fine. Took driver out, bam, first shot my typical bad shot, low and left. Next one, bam, there’s my good shot, low and straight.

He videod and trackman the shots and showed me them back, the main things he talked about is that my club face is closed during the takeaway, closed at the top and therefore closed at impact. He showed that I’m aiming right to compensate. This all results in me trying to correct it during the downswing, which sometimes I can do (the good shots), but sometimes I can’t (the bad shots).

So he’s sent me away to work on opening the club face by the time the club is parallel with the ground during takeaway. Also, try to line feet up properly, and for my right hand to be more on top of the club rather than strong. Hit some shots with him trying this, lots of slices, he talked about tinkering with my grip, strengthen it to reduce the slice. Because of the ball position with driver being further away and forward, I really struggled to get my right hand on top of the grip.

Aaaaanyway, stableford comp this morning. First tee, whack, slice OOB. Provisional, whack, even further OOB right. Stupid to try it in a comp without bedding in the change.

So am I right in thinking that a weak right hand is on top of the club, can create this slice? And a strong right hand is more underneath and can cause the club face to close, creating my low pulls? I therefore need to try and find somewhere in the middle.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Update on this - I had a lesson yesterday as I couldn’t fix the problems myself.

Went along for 30 minute lesson, he asked if I was concerned about something in particular so told him that I hit my irons fairly well, but my driving is destructive. A good drive is a low flight at best which works in summer but not enough carry in winter. Usual bad shot is either very low or a low pull. Occasionally sky it.

So I hit some shots with my 7 iron, all pretty fine. Took driver out, bam, first shot my typical bad shot, low and left. Next one, bam, there’s my good shot, low and straight.

He videod and trackman the shots and showed me them back, the main things he talked about is that my club face is closed during the takeaway, closed at the top and therefore closed at impact. He showed that I’m aiming right to compensate. This all results in me trying to correct it during the downswing, which sometimes I can do (the good shots), but sometimes I can’t (the bad shots).

So he’s sent me away to work on opening the club face by the time the club is parallel with the ground during takeaway. Also, try to line feet up properly, and for my right hand to be more on top of the club rather than strong. Hit some shots with him trying this, lots of slices, he talked about tinkering with my grip, strengthen it to reduce the slice. Because of the ball position with driver being further away and forward, I really struggled to get my right hand on top of the grip.

Aaaaanyway, stableford comp this morning. First tee, whack, slice OOB. Provisional, whack, even further OOB right. Stupid to try it in a comp without bedding in the change.

So am I right in thinking that a weak right hand is on top of the club, can create this slice? And a strong right hand is more underneath and can cause the club face to close, creating my low pulls? I therefore need to try and find somewhere in the middle.

Simple take from a simple member, stick with what you worked on at the lesson and take some time at the range to get it right. Providing your grip isn't too weak (tendency to fade/slice from there), I wouldn't tinker with it too much and work more on aligning straighter and taking it away better. Once you are hitting better and more consistent shots, then you can fiddle more with the grip and see what it does to the flight and shape

 

[bobmac]

So he’s sent me away to work on opening the club face by the time the club is parallel with the ground during takeaway. Also, try to line feet up properly, and for my right hand to be more on top of the club rather than strong.

That worries me.

If you weaken the grip, the clubface shouldn't close on the take away.
But if you weaken the grip AND open the face on the takeaway, I'm not surprised the face is open at impact.

 

[timd77]

That worries me.

If you weaken the grip, the clubface shouldn't close on the take away.
But if you weaken the grip AND open the face on the takeaway, I'm not surprised the face is open at impact.

When I say open up the face on take away, I more mean open it up in comparison to where it is now...so he talked about the toe pointing nearly upwards at that first parallel check point.

This is the link to his summary at the end of the lesson...

https://www.golfsthegame.com/viewvideo.php?ID=176247&Verify=4356E96E

 

[njrose51]

Couple of points. First please don’t take this the wrong way but you sound like a normal 20 handicapper. So don’t worry or you’ll just get worse. More tense. More stressed. 2. How many swing thoughts do you have as you stand over each shot??? Again not being funny but how do you concentrate on just swinging the club? I know from experience - I was exactly the same position as you - left right top hook slice fat thin poor short game. I had a shocker of a hook that wrecked my card! The only way to get better is to find a pro you trust. Start from the ground up - stance posture grip. Fundamentals first!!! Take one issue at a time. STOP watching YouTube it really does you no good at this stage. Again I speak from experience, it just confuses things. I had a shocker of a game but it’s gradually getting better as I worked really hard with my teacher to sort out faults and get fundamentals right. It’s the only way to go. I was 25 and now 17.2. I would also recommend Bob rotella books - a very good read! Keep positive!!!

 

[timd77]

Couple of points. First please don’t take this the wrong way but you sound like a normal 20 handicapper. So don’t worry or you’ll just get worse. More tense. More stressed. 2. How many swing thoughts do you have as you stand over each shot??? Again not being funny but how do you concentrate on just swinging the club? I know from experience - I was exactly the same position as you - left right top hook slice fat thin poor short game. I had a shocker of a hook that wrecked my card! The only way to get better is to find a pro you trust. Start from the ground up - stance posture grip. Fundamentals first!!! Take one issue at a time. STOP watching YouTube it really does you no good at this stage. Again I speak from experience, it just confuses things. I had a shocker of a game but it’s gradually getting better as I worked really hard with my teacher to sort out faults and get fundamentals right. It’s the only way to go. I was 25 and now 17.2. I would also recommend Bob rotella books - a very good read! Keep positive!!!

Thanks mate. Felt anything but positive with 29 points yesterday!

Swing thoughts vary but at the moment I’m trying just to look at a spot on the ball, and then tell myself when reach the top of my backswing. Not sure this is very helpful!

I definitely play like a high handicapper. Some shots are great, birdied the 4th and parred our SI 1 par 5 yesterday, but then I can destroy my round with 1 swing!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The only way to get better is to find a pro you trust. STOP watching YouTube it really does you no good at this stage. Again I speak from experience, it just confuses things. I would also recommend Bob Rotella books - a very good read! Keep positive!!!

Totally agree with these points. I think the OP needs to go back to the teaching pro and seek clarification on what the pr was trying to do especially in light of Bob's comments. It isn't just as a 20+ handicapper that you can go backwards before moving forward again. Off 11 I regularly struggle for a few rounds if I have a lesson and the pro makes a big change. I tend to have a couple of range sessions, really working hard on any drills I've had, rehearsing over and again and taking my time over shots. I try not to go out into a competition round straight off and have some social rounds where I set the expectations low and just trust the change and work I've done. If it goes badly don't be tempted to revert to old swings or tinker. It takes time but it will get better