Tee Times - Staying or Going

[Mandofred]

I'm just doing a little (hopefully taken light hearted..... please) arguing for the heck of it here......although I am curious to the thinking behind peoples views.

What is fair for booking times? For some, blocked out times (doesn't matter what time) for roll ups etc are seen as unfair because other people are locked out of playing with the buddies at that time....they can still play, but not the way they want to play. I can kind of get that point of view, although I view it more that they are against anything that isn't in their best interest. What about blocked out times for comps? If I just want to play with some friends on the day of a Medal....I can't unless I join the comp.....and over the Summer, there are a LOT of days for comps. Tuesday mornings at Knaresborough (and a lot of other places) seems to have a good chunk of time blocked out for ladies morning.....I can't play at that time. Visiting parties, they call up, they get a block of time (sometimes a BIG block) and I can't play at that time, and at times they are back to back groups of visitors.

Is "fair" a state of mind? Different for each person?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm just doing a little (hopefully taken light hearted..... please) arguing for the heck of it here......although I am curious to the thinking behind peoples views.

What is fair for booking times? For some, blocked out times (doesn't matter what time) for roll ups etc are seen as unfair because other people are locked out of playing with the buddies at that time....they can still play, but not the way they want to play. I can kind of get that point of view, although I view it more that they are against anything that isn't in their best interest. What about blocked out times for comps? If I just want to play with some friends on day of a Medal....I can't unless I join the comp.....and over the Summer, there are a LOT of days for comps. Tuesday mornings at Knaresborough (and a lot of other places) seems to have a good chunk of time blocked out for ladies morning.....I can't play at that time. Visiting parties, they call up, they get a block of time (sometimes a BIG block) and I can't play at that time, and at times they are back to back groups of visitors.

Is "fair" a state of mind? Different for each person?

I'd remove all block bookings for members. Book and play, whoever you are whenever you want. The concept of mens section, ladies section, seniors section being able to block out the course to the detriment of other members is wrong imo. So, roll up or big comp, take your chances with all members. You pay the same after all.

Visitors is a seperate issue, a necessary evil. At times of course, I am part of that evil as I go and play other courses

 

[Mandofred]

I'd remove all block bookings for members. Book and play, whoever you are whenever you want. The concept of mens section, ladies section, seniors section being able to block out the course to the detriment of other members is wrong imo. So, roll up or big comp, take your chances with all members. You pay the same after all.

Visitors is a seperate issue, a necessary evil. At times of course, I am part of that evil as I go and play other courses

Somehow I knew that's what you would want

We have a huge group of Seniors at Ripon, and these people are very active in the Senior days/comps. There are actually too many to have a regular Thursday comp....it fills up fast and they don't want to take too much of the day from other people. This group is a large part of the total members at the club.....do clubs cater to it's members? This group provides a huge chunk of the money that the club needs to function. I think the club should.

I guess in my constant effort at trying to compromise between differing views.....I don't see a problem with these large groups of Seniors/women/etc having their little comps during the week....and they don't usually occur on the busier weekend days.

Why should comps get an excuse? These aren't just once a month kind of things. You usually lose at least 2 Saturdays a month during the summer. Ripon has scheduled 12 open comps on weekends for next summer.....at the detriment of the club members (who are not allowed to play in these comps).

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Somehow I knew that's what you would want

We have a huge group of Seniors at Ripon, and these people are very active in the Senior days/comps. There are actually too many to have a regular Thursday comp....it fills up fast and they don't want to take too much of the day from other people. This group is a large part of the total members at the club.....do clubs cater to it's members? This group provides a huge chunk of the money that the club needs to function. I think the club should.

I guess in my constant effort at trying to compromise between differing views.....I don't see a problem with these large groups of Seniors/women/etc having their little comps during the week....and they don't usually occur on the busier weekend days.

Why should comps get an excuse? These aren't just once a month kind of things. You usually lose at least 2 Saturdays a month during the summer. Ripon has scheduled 12 open comps on weekends for next summer.....at the detriment of the club members (who are not allowed to play in these comps).

I would not defend Ripon for having 12 opens next year. I'd be pretty hacked off as a member. If they are ways of bringing in revenue to help maintain the club, course, keep your fees down etc then maybe a compromise has to be sought. Down to each club as how intrusive those days are though.

There is a lot that happens in clubs that is down to 'it's always been that way'. Thinking outside that concept is largely unpopular but I suspect if you were starting with a blank piece of paper you would not have a club where people pay the same fees yet can not access the facilities for big chunks of time, sometimes at the times that are the only times they can play.

Ultimately, you either have a series of compromises, the current system in most places, or an open system which I suggest. If you have the former then you have to suck it up when it doesn't work for you. Great when it is in your favour. Not so great when it isn't. Compromises........

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Fair = no block booking beyond recognised club competition

All other tee times opened to anyone who wishes to book it

 

[Mandofred]

Fair = no block booking beyond recognised club competition

All other tee times opened to anyone who wishes to book it

 

[Voyager EMH]

Fair = no block booking beyond recognised club competition

All other tee times opened to anyone who wishes to book it

Well summed up.
Although it does not suit me exactly, it is what I have just voted for at my club.
I listened to a lot of the views and decided that those with far more work and family commitments than I have deserve my consideration.

 

[Mandofred]

I would not defend Ripon for having 12 opens next year. I'd be pretty hacked off as a member. And there are a bunch of hacked off people. If they are ways of bringing in revenue to help maintain the club, course, keep your fees down etc then maybe a compromise has to be sought. Down to each club as how intrusive those days are though.

There is a lot that happens in clubs that is down to 'it's always been that way'. Thinking outside that concept is largely unpopular but I suspect if you were starting with a blank piece of paper you would not have a club where people pay the same fees yet can not access the facilities for big chunks of time, sometimes at the times that are the only times they can play. Other people can make this point better than me I would think...I used to be a member at a tennis club back in the US...same issue...times when anybody can play, times when only certain people can play. With all the club situations in the UK (much much better than back where I grew up) tennis, badminton, etc etc etc....do these other activities also run into some conflicts of similar nature (I can only guess).

Ultimately, you either have a series of compromises, the current system in most places, or an open system which I suggest. If you have the former then you have to suck it up when it doesn't work for you. Great when it is in your favour. Not so great when it isn't. Compromises........People don't want to compromise, on either side. I don't really know why, seems sensible to make adjustments to make as many people happy as possible

I tend to lean towards this......a membership club has the right to set the rules to fit their needs. I do know that if I was looking to start up golfing again 6+ years ago, and the club I was looking at didn't have a couple of roll up groups to join, I would never have played golf again. Finding people to play with would have made me too uncomfortable to start things up. Any club that doesn't have at least a couple of roll up groups to jump in with I won't be a member at. I'm still wondering if Knaresborough is bringing roll ups back or not....they are having a "trial" day on 11 Sept.....not sure why they need a "trial" day since they already had a number of roll ups so they know how things run..? If it doesn't stick.....I'm gone. I have a guitar that I've been putting off practicing....this would just get me motivated to get other hobbies going.

 

[3offTheTee]

This is what I don't understand. Obviously I like roll ups, but I wouldn't want them outside of the booking system. People have the option of joining in the roll up (which would be blocked off) or playing at any other time the rest of the day. My Wednesday group has the tee from 9-10. There are several hours before that you can book your tee times (there are always times), play in the roll up, or all the rest of the booking times the rest of the day after 10am.....and there are plenty of open times every day.

When the Manager asked others not to book at set times surely he was being unfair to other members. This is not pointed at your group but your group is receiving preferential treatment to the detriment of other members. Is this reasonable as I expect you are all paying the same subs. What happens if I want to play at those times, the only time I can play, do not want to play in your Group how can I be satisfied? repeat this has nothing to do with your Group.

 

[tobybarker]

I can't see any up sides whatsoever of having a non booking regime..... It's easy enough to take a look on BRS to see when there's a space..... To be fair my course is pretty quiet on the afternoons so I could actually get on most days, but the idea of HAVING to rock up and hope there's not too many people who had the same urge as me is ridiculous and I would seriously look to move to a club which used a booking system. Imagine driving for an hour on the hope you can get on.... Madness

 

[louise_a]

We moved to booking tee times well before Covid started, I think its great, you can just have a look see if there is a free spot, you can see who is playing and swether there is a 2 ball or 4 ball out in front of you. Can't see a down side to it

 

[Mandofred]

When the Manager asked others not to book at set times surely he was being unfair to other members. This is not pointed at your group but your group is receiving preferential treatment to the detriment of other members. Is this reasonable as I expect you are all paying the same subs. What happens if I want to play at those times, the only time I can play, do not want to play in your Group how can I be satisfied? repeat this has nothing to do with your Group.

This is just my opinion.....no idea if I'm right or not.....

I think the mgr is leaning towards doing away with the roll ups. The office/committee doesn't really keep the members "in the know" about decisions that they are making (again....in my opinion). When I (and others that I play with) have asked the other people we play with (the guys who are in the know) if the roll ups are coming back....we got the same answer out of all of them....almost word for word. So I think the "committee" has a plan....they just aren't going to tell us what it is. I think that the mgr was trying to appease the roll up people by letting them have a "kind of" roll up......kind of like what Liverpoolphil does....put names in to someone, they do the draw, and then they book times as close as possible together....it kind of works. But that isn't a roll up to me. That is just booking times to play golf.

Back ground: we had tooooo many roll ups anyway. Those people who think I just support roll ups without restrainted....nope. We had too many roll ups. There is a good reason to have roll ups, but having too many of them is a big negative.

Again I come back to the comment of "unfair". In my opinion, the club has a right to run things as they see fit. If a club doesn't run things they way I can live with.....I'll find another club. If I cannot find a club that I can live with....I won't play golf. This isn't good or bad to me......these are decisions I make all of the time. I can live without golf. If golf gets too annoying for me to want to play.....I'll do something else. Again....not right or wrong....it's just life.

Unfair.....I'm coming to the conclusion that if something doesn't go the way someone thinks it should.....it's unfair to them. I can easily make the declaration that my not being able to play with my buddies on a Saturday morning that a Medal is taking place isn't "fair". That would just be me complaining that I can't get my way.........

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Lots of reports on Twitter of clubs doing away with the booking systems and people turning up at the 1st tee to find half a dozen groups in fromt waiting to go out

many turning around and going home

That cant be good for member retention

 

[Mandofred]

Lots of reports on Twitter of clubs doing away with the booking systems and people turning up at the 1st tee to find half a dozen groups in fromt waiting to go out

many turning around and going home

That cant be good for member retention

Nope. Golf is like everything else.....you need to make the majority happy or you go out of business.

 

[backwoodsman]

Our "Seniors" cant have roll ups at the mo but have devised a "cunning plan"...

An email goes round the distribution list and you reply on a webform to state your intention to play in it on the given day. The Seniors Sec does a draw and emails back groupings. The first named in the 3 ball is responsible for booking the starting time for the three of them. They do this between the "old times" that they used to do the roll up. (They used go do a draw of those present in the morning)

Seems to be a good compromise.

A couple practical questions if I may ...

How far in advance of "the given day" do you express intent to play.
And how far in advance can you make your actual bookings?

(At ours, you'd need to bags slots as soon as booking opens - which is 9:00 , 1 week in advance. So the draw would need to be done before that)

 

[IanM]

Email goes 7 days ahead, closes 4 days before, on line booking opens 3 days before.

 

[backwoodsman]

Email goes 7 days ahead, closes 4 days before, on line booking opens 3 days before.

So... a fairly short duration then? Which i can see can work.

A supplementary question. Does the same person organise it all the time? Eg what if they are unavailable, incapacitated or whatever?

(Just trying to see how we could make something similar work at ours).

 

[upsidedown]

At ours on Weds and Fri there is a Fiddle and booking on BRS goes live 8 days before hand. Members know that you can book a tee time between 9.30 and 10.45 and you'll be included. Turn up at clubhouse for draw at 9. 15. Other members can book a tee time and the Fiddle work around them. One guy organises with deputies when he's away. Numbers vary from 24 to 45. Works well

 

[Voyager EMH]

We are keeping the full booking system. Management could not go against the vote. Although "getting back to normal" was their original plan.

 

[NearHull]

We are keeping the full booking system. Management could not go against the vote. Although "getting back to normal" was their original plan.

View attachment 38348

Do you have 5 or 6 day members? If so, were they allowed to vote for Saturday and/or Sunday?