Summer Transfer Window

[Deleted member 15344]

The good thing about this discussion is we are talking about talented English players

When you add in players like Sterling , Shaw etc and if coached right could be a promising future

 

[SaintHacker]

Money talks (sadly) and so if a club comes with a big price then they won't refuse. I also think they wouldn't stand in his way to progress

Whilst I agree if he wants to go then we will let him, that is the only way a deal will happen. And even then whoever wants him is going to have to shell out big time. We are not the little selling club we used to be under Rupert Lowe and his cronies.

 

[Papas1982]

Whilst I agree if he wants to go then we will let him, that is the only way a deal will happen. And even then whoever wants him is going to have to shell out big time. We are not the little selling club we used to be under Rupert Lowe and his cronies.

We aren't big enough to not be a selling club. If the right price is offered then we'd sell. I can't see why adam wouldn't want to move. I dont think he'll request a transfer. But i'm sure he'll ask behind doors for one. We sold players before Rupert, who btw wasnt the only one responsible for our demise and i'm sure we'll sell long into the future.

 

[Papas1982]

The good thing about this discussion is we are talking about talented English players

When you add in players like Sterling , Shaw etc and if coached right could be a promising future

Obviously I want them to stay at saints. But, if they were to leave. I'd rather see our latest batch all head to anfield. Most of the top international sides atm replicate the top teams styles of play. And i think the football styles of liverpool and saints are very matched. So would benefit England massively!

 

[richart]

Thats a good little device,but surely you should list all the stats to make a fair comparison?

Lallana has more blocks and clearances for example and his shot accuracy is also significantly better.

From what i can see from your stats Lallana is first or second in all, bar duels. So i don't know how that makes him the worst?

I'd also expect a Coutinho to have substantially higher assists and chances created been as he's playing for a bigger team that have scored almost twice as many goals at saints.

IMO Lallana is the best of the three players and quite clearly currently.

In 20 years when all their careers are over, will he have been the best, possibly not. But as a player to pick for a one off game i'd take him everyday. Will be interested what his role will be if he goes to liverpool. I'd imagine Coutinhos role will diminish.

***** Lallana 26 today by the way lol

I think Lallana suits being a big fish in a small pond. Bit like Le Tiss. Not sure if he would blossom so much playing for one of the big boys, especially if he didn't get to play every week.

Going back a few years Gary Birtles was great for Forest, moved to Utd, and hardly scored a goal.

 

[SaintHacker]

The good thing about this discussion is we are talking about talented English players

When you add in players like Sterling , Shaw etc and if coached right could be a promising future

Think thats something we can all agree on:thup:

 

[SaintHacker]

Going back a few years Gary Birtles was great for Forest, moved to Utd, and hardly scored a goal.

Fernando Torres?

 

[Papas1982]

I think Lallana suits being a big fish in a small pond. Bit like Le Tiss. Not sure if he would blossom so much playing for one of the big boys, especially if he didn't get to play every week.

Going back a few years Gary Birtles was great for Forest, moved to Utd, and hardly scored a goal.

Hahahahaha, My oh my! Le Tiss liked playing for saints as the money on offer wasn't much better elsewhere. But his goals speak for themselves. He would have scored them on a park or at any stadium in the world. Unfortunately, back then, not playing for a big team made people think you were no good.

 

[Papas1982]

I think Lallana suits being a big fish in a small pond. Bit like Le Tiss. Not sure if he would blossom so much playing for one of the big boys, especially if he didn't get to play every week.

Going back a few years Gary Birtles was great for Forest, moved to Utd, and hardly scored a goal.

Birtles isn't comparable to Le Tiss, Birtles scored 1 goal every four games during his career. He had a good start and faded. Le Tisser scored 1 every 2.5 games. And 80% of them were goal of the month contebders.

 

[Liverbirdie]

When it comes to stats, they help in an argument, they do not make an argument. In the last 5 years with Sky/BBB obsessions with them it is trickling down into every argument.

Coutinho's tackling stats would have been altered greatly in one game (against City) were he must have won 7-8 tackles in the first half alone.

Coutinho up to the shoulder injury against swansea was immense and I wouldn't have sold him for less than 35M. Since then he has tried to force passes and shots too much and most times has hit them too early and hit it straight at the defender, or dragged the shots left.

Dont get me wrong after his first 6 months it would have been hard to keep that level up, but he has dipped this season. I still wouldnt sell him though and I think he will come good again.

Stats dont show heart, desire, character, will to win,skill, toughness.

Take Beckham - his dribbling skills would have been poor for a winger - doesn't matter if you can whip in a cross from the touchline onto Nistelrooy's head 10 yards out every time.

 

[Papas1982]

When it comes to stats, they help in an argument, they do not make an argument. In the last 5 years with Sky/BBB obsessions with them it is trickling down into every argument.

Coutinho's tackling stats would have been altered greatly in one game (against City) were he must have won 7-8 tackles in the first half alone.

Coutinho up to the shoulder injury against swansea was immense and I wouldn't have sold him for less than 35M. Since then he has tried to force passes and shots too much and most times has hit them too early and hit it straight at the defender, or dragged the shots left.

Dont get me wrong after his first 6 months it would have been hard to keep that level up, but he has dipped this season. I still wouldnt sell him though and I think he will come good again.

Stats dont show heart, desire, character, will to win,skill, toughness.

Take Beckham - his dribbling skills would have been poor for a winger - doesn't matter if you can whip in a cross from the touchline onto Nistelrooy's head 10 yards out every time.

Some stats are helpful though. Surely if you're buying an attack minded player. Goals or assists per game/minute are relevant? I agree that some are pointless, but i also think that they're not as useless as some think.

 

[richart]

Hahahahaha, My oh my! Le Tiss liked playing for saints as the money on offer wasn't much better elsewhere. But his goals speak for themselves. He would have scored them on a park or at any stadium in the world. Unfortunately, back then, not playing for a big team made people think you were no good.

In your opinion, but unfortunately no proof. Never did it for England, but a great one club man. Wasn't to do with the money, more to do with being able to nip back to Guernsey.

You also missed the point regarding Birtles. I am not comparing talent, just that some players are great at certain teams, get a move to a bigger team and don't perform as well. Stewart Downing, Adam Johnston, wide players that just din't make it at top 4 clubs. If Lallana goes to a top 4 club it will be interesting to see how he fares.

 

[richart]

Hahahahaha, My oh my! Le Tiss liked playing for saints as the money on offer wasn't much better elsewhere. But his goals speak for themselves. He would have scored them on a park or at any stadium in the world. Unfortunately, back then, not playing for a big team made people think you were no good.

Wasn't interested in winning trophys then, just played for the money.:mmm:

 

[Liverbirdie]

Some stats are helpful though. Surely if you're buying an attack minded player. Goals or assists per game/minute are relevant? I agree that some are pointless, but i also think that they're not as useless as some think.

No doubt, but they dont show more than a third of the picture for me, when it comes to assessing a great player.

Liverpool signed Jermaine Pennant because he put the most crosses in in the prem the season before. If the keeper catches half of them, defenders clear them, hit the first defender, its a moot point. Also if he was putting them into ,say, crouch and carroll and they convert lots, it makes his stats look good. If he moves to a team who have two dimuntive strikers, it changes the dynamic. A winger who beats a man, gets to the byline, and is accurate will be better for that side.

 

[Papas1982]

Wasn't interested in winning trophys then, just played for the money.:mmm:

Yeah that's it. More that he loved playing for the club and that was his top priority. If it was purely money he would have left, as more was offered. Just the difference betwwen top clubs wasn't so much then.

 

[Papas1982]

In your opinion, but unfortunately no proof. Never did it for England, but a great one club man. Wasn't to do with the money, more to do with being able to nip back to Guernsey.

You also missed the point regarding Birtles. I am not comparing talent, just that some players are great at certain teams, get a move to a bigger team and don't perform as well. Stewart Downing, Adam Johnston, wide players that just din't make it at top 4 clubs. If Lallana goes to a top 4 club it will be interesting to see how he fares.

True, no proof. But having seen plenty of his colleagues stat that he was treated poorly i'd value their opinion. He may well have flopped, but nore sure it mattered what team he was in, all needed to do was get with 35 yards of goal and shoot. All goals are the same size.

He was a scapegoat at england. often put into games when they were over of insignificant. He missed one header against italy in 97/98 qualifying and made scapegoat.

I know that if you could offer me Le Tiss in place of lallana id take it.

 

[Papas1982]

No doubt, but they dont show more than a third of the picture for me, when it comes to assessing a great player.

Liverpool signed Jermaine Pennant because he put the most crosses in in the prem the season before. If the keeper catches half of them, defenders clear them, hit the first defender, its a moot point. Also if he was putting them into ,say, crouch and carroll and they convert lots, it makes his stats look good. If he moves to a team who have two dimuntive strikers, it changes the dynamic. A winger who beats a man, gets to the byline, and is accurate will be better for that side.

True, but surely thats down to scouting and tactics, much like why caroll left you. he has a certain amount of talent but didn't fit tactics so was moved on. If a manager buys a winger for crosses then plays small strikers, hes made a mistake?

I don't think stats are bad as such, but regularly misused.

Anyway, havent spotted yours so i'll ask.

Top 3 (realistic) transfer hopes for summer.

 

[Liverbirdie]

True, but surely thats down to scouting and tactics, much like why caroll left you. he has a certain amount of talent but didn't fit tactics so was moved on. If a manager buys a winger for crosses then plays small strikers, hes made a mistake?

I don't think stats are bad as such, but regularly misused.

Anyway, havent spotted yours so i'll ask.

Top 3 (realistic) transfer hopes for summer.

All round good keeper - Vorm, would do it for me.

Striker (cant survive on two only). Bony would offer a different option and still scores goals. Remy if not.

LB - Cole for a season, whilst we invest elsewhere, or another top left back. Think Shaw may go elsewhere though, or cost too much (for us). Did he work with Rodgers when at Chelsea - it may be a factor.

Lallana or that type of attacking midfielder, (doubt we can afford Barkley or will come here being a boyhood blue).

Micah Richards/Caulker/Fonte.

Konyplanka or another out and out winger.

This season we have the worst bench in the top half, if not all of the premiership.

They may cost us £50-80 million, hopefully with a few sales, CL money and a bit more investment by the owners, we'll have this to spend.

We need to fill out the first 17 spaces with another 4-5 first class, proven players. The rest of the squad can be filled with loanees returning such as Suso, Wisdom, Ibe (watch him next season), Illori, Borini.

Maybe LFC and Soton should merge.......... make a great team.:thup:

 

[richart]

True, no proof. But having seen plenty of his colleagues stat that he was treated poorly i'd value their opinion. He may well have flopped, but nore sure it mattered what team he was in, all needed to do was get with 35 yards of goal and shoot. All goals are the same size.

He was a scapegoat at england. often put into games when they were over of insignificant. He missed one header against italy in 97/98 qualifying and made scapegoat.

I know that if you could offer me Le Tiss in place of lallana id take it.

He only played 8 times for England, no goals. Unfortunately at International level you don't get time on the ball 35 yards out. Took a mean penalty though. Nearly a third of his goals for Soton were penalties. Trouble is he didn't fit into most teams. Wasn't a striker that got into the box, and scored from close range. Wasn't a winger that tracked back, and tackled. Even at Soton he got left out, especially when playing away.

Nothing wrong with loyalty to one club, especially to that clubs supporters. Just about every other supporter would have liked to see him go to a top 4 team, to see if he could turn it on in big games, Europe etc. We will never know. As I said before some players suit being a big fish in a small pond, and Le Tissier in my opinion was one of them.

 

[garyinderry]

I thought there was a stat that shows involvement in a goal. the guy who lays the ball across for a tap in doesn't necessarily make the goal but gets the credit for an assist.