Stroke and distance

[Lump]

Just a quick query.

A player tee’s off, they barely hit the ball and it shoots off into scrub land beside the tee box that gives them no alternative but to use the stroke and distance rule.

Importantly, they choose not to hit a provisional before leaving the tee box or simply hitting another.
Here is the question. Is there any situation where after finding the ball that they can re-tee a ball or must they play the ball from the ground.
I’m pretty sure of the answer but as per the norm the other 3 players in the 4ball questioned my resolve.

 

[rulie]

Just a quick query.

A player tee’s off, they barely hit the ball and it shoots off into scrub land beside the tee box that gives them no alternative but to use the stroke and distance rule.

Importantly, they choose not to hit a provisional before leaving the tee box or simply hitting another.
Here is the question. Is there any situation where after finding the ball that they can re-tee a ball or must they play the ball from the ground.
I’m pretty sure of the answer but as per the norm the other 3 players in the 4ball questioned my resolve.

Whenever a ball is in or to be played from the teeing area, it can be re-teed anywhere within the teeing area (see Rule 6.2). And the player can proceed under penalty of stroke and distance at any time (see Ri;e 18.1).

 

[williamalex1]

I think you always have the stroke and distance option.

 

[2blue]

Isn't it a case of declaring it 'unplayable' then simply going back from where it was played..... stroke & distance

 

[rulefan]

Isn't it a case of declaring it 'unplayable' then simply going back from where it was played..... stroke & distance

No need to 'declare', say or do anything except just play the ball from the tee.

 

[Lump]

I maybe need to clarify.
Can the ball be re-tee’d (i.e tee’d up for a driver, as per the previous shot)
I fully understand stroke and distance can be played at any point without declaration.
That’s the only playable option they had.

 

[rulie]

As in post #2, the ball can be re-teed (tee'd up if like) anywhere within the teeing area.

 

[robinthehood]

I maybe need to clarify.
Can the ball be re-tee’d (i.e tee’d up for a driver, as per the previous shot)
I fully understand stroke and distance can be played at any point without declaration.
That’s the only playable option they had.

Yes as per post 2....
What did you think the answer was ?

 

[Whereditgo]

No need to 'declare', say or do anything except just play the ball from the tee.

Given the original ball was found, wouldn't the player either need to play the ball as it lies or 'declare' the ball unplayable to then have the unplayable ball options, one of which would be stroke and distance back to the tee where he could then place the ball on a tee?

 

[DickInShorts]

Given the original ball was found, wouldn't the player either need to play the ball as it lies or 'declare' the ball unplayable to then have the unplayable ball options, one of which would be stroke and distance back to the tee where he could then place the ball on a tee?

In the OP it states he didn’t play the second ball as a provisional So the first ball was no longer in play

The query was - had he played provisional and found the original could it have been put in a tee when taking S&D from the teeing area

 

[rulefan]

Given the original ball was found, wouldn't the player either need to play the ball as it lies or 'declare' the ball unplayable to then have the unplayable ball options, one of which would be stroke and distance back to the tee where he could then place the ball on a tee?

No. If you go back to the place of the original stroke and simply play again, the ball is automatically the ball in play and you are considered to have played under stroke and distance.

In fact, the Rule does not require you to declare the ball unplayable (or make any statement) if you are taking any of the other relief options (back on the line or two clublengths): only that the ball is put into play correctly

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No. If you go back to the place of the original stroke and simply play again, the ball is automatically the ball in play and you are considered to have played under stroke and distance.

In fact, the Rule does not require you to declare the ball unplayable (or make any statement) if you are taking any of the other relief options (back on the line or two clublengths): only that the ball is put into play correctly

Which could be taking two club length penalty onto the tee - and if it’s a very long tee on a par 3 that could find you with a shot to the green 1-2 clubs less than if you go back to where you teed off from. And can you tee it up - never really thought about it but seems like you can? ??

 

[rulefan]

The query was - had he played provisional and found the original could it have been put in a tee when taking S&D from the teeing area

The query was - Is there any situation where after finding the ball that they can re-tee a ball or must they play the ball from the ground.

No mention of a provisional.

 

[Whereditgo]

No. If you go back to the place of the original stroke and simply play again, the ball is automatically the ball in play and you are considered to have played under stroke and distance.

In fact, the Rule does not require you to declare the ball unplayable (or make any statement) if you are taking any of the other relief options (back on the line or two clublengths): only that the ball is put into play correctly

You've confused me here (easily done it seems), isn't going back to the place of the original stroke to play again one of the options of an unplayable ball? I'm confused by "the ball is automatically the ball in play".

I let my marker know what I am doing whenever I am going to do anything other than play the ball as it lies, they could be some distance away and not know I am taking relief, identifying the ball etc.

 

[LincolnShep]

You've confused me here (easily done it seems), isn't going back to the place of the original stroke to play again one of the options of an unplayable ball? I'm confused by "the ball is automatically the ball in play".

I let my marker know what I am doing whenever I am going to do anything other than play the ball as it lies, they could be some distance away and not know I am taking relief, identifying the ball etc.

RF was responding to the comment about 'declaring' a ball lost; and pointing out that there is no need for any such declaration. The action of putting another ball into play is what matters - not what you say.

 

[nickjdavis]

Which could be taking two club length penalty onto the tee - and if it’s a very long tee on a par 3 that could find you with a shot to the green 1-2 clubs less than if you go back to where you teed off from. And can you tee it up - never really thought about it but seems like you can? ??

Not sure that is correct....there is a difference between the actual "teeing area" as defined by the tee markers and the 2 clubs backwards, and the rest of the tee box.

Within the teeing area you could tee the ball up...but not anywhere else on the tee box.

 

[ScienceBoy]

I think you always have the stroke and distance option.

This is one rule club golfers can use to their advantage in competition, I can think of at least two good personal examples where it has meant a bogey instead of a double on the card.

 

[rulefan]

You've confused me here (easily done it seems), isn't going back to the place of the original stroke to play again one of the options of an unplayable ball? I'm confused by "the ball is automatically the ball in play".

It is but you don't have to say anything.

I let my marker know what I am doing whenever I am going to do anything other than play the ball as it lies, they could be some distance away and not know I am taking relief, identifying the ball etc.

That is often a good idea. But not strictly necessary - except if you ever decide to play a provisional ball, when it is compulsory. Which wasn't the case here.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not sure that is correct....there is a difference between the actual "teeing area" as defined by the tee markers and the 2 clubs backwards, and the rest of the tee box.

Within the teeing area you could tee the ball up...but not anywhere else on the tee box.

...it was that differentiation that caused me to pause and think...

 

[Slab]

This is one rule club golfers can use to their advantage in competition, I can think of at least two good personal examples where it has meant a bogey instead of a double on the card.

Yup I managed to hit a long putt into a bunker located near a pin recently on a wickedly sloping fast green only to find I ended up in PP's footprint (who'd just played out & hadn't raked yet)
Being realistic I didn't fancy my chances of exiting first time with any measure of control with a very possible 3-putt looming, so took stroke and distance option and took the putt again (still needed 2-putts)
Painful penalty but definitely the lesser evil

Sorry for OT post