Strange preffered lie question

[Bobirdie]

Was asked this in the clubhouse last weekend what my thought on it was.

Our club is operating preffered lies at the moment.

Scenario.

Ball plugs in the face of a 'fairway' bunker.
Not touching any sand.

Would the player be entitled to move the ball under preffered lie?

I didnt think so as it was in the bunker area.

Thoughts???

 

[USER1999]

Yes, as a plugged ball may be lifted. Tricky to place the ball back down without it rolling though.

 

[Whereditgo]

If it's not in the sand then yes as per below, i think.

Embedded Ball

Second thoughts, perhaps not as is it's not a closely mown area!?

 

[john0]

Doesnt the preferred lies rule only apply to the fairway though?

 

[DCB]

"closely mown area through the green"

 

[Driven2Distraction]

If it's not in the sand then yes as per below, i think.

Embedded Ball

Second thoughts, perhaps not as is it's not a closely mown area!?

that link contains a wee pic of this situation - as the face isn't "closely mown" - play it as it lies or declare unplayable.... although hacking about in the face of a bunker is really going to impress the Greenkeeping staff!!

 

[DCB]

Ah, but,

Decision 25-2/5 would allow a lift if the bunker was kept to 'fairway height or less'

A lot depends on how the greens staff keep the bunkers I suppose.

 

[USER1999]

I guess it would depend on what local rules are in place. Somewhere there should be a notice detailing what you can and cannot do when winter rules are in place.

To me, the point of winter rules is to protect the course. Having guys hacking plugged balls out is daft, and will do the course no favours at all. You could be plugged 3 foot off the green, just off the fringe, with only 12 ft to the flag. This is going back to the silly days of yester year.

Whilst the rules are the rules, and we all abide by them, I bet if it was that wet at a pro tournament they would bend the rules with a local rule before play so this doesn't happen. Much like the tourny on at the moment where you are allowed to ground your club in the bunkers due to there being poor definition as to what is a bunker, and what is waste ground.

 

[Robobum]

Pros have a "hard card" of rules for all tournaments. Plugged ball is covered in this and relief is granted wherever the ball plugs, rough and all.

Individual courses can put in a local rule as and when they want, not just for winter. (Makes it sound like a puppy! )

 

[USER1999]

So much for there being one set of rules then.

 

[Robobum]

There is, it's the club's fault they don't use them.

Is your place generally a bog? Are plugged balls common place? Get onto the club to put the LR in place.

 

[viscount17]

I think murph has nailed it 'the point of winter rules is to protect the course'. Very often it's seen as nothing more than a way to gain a, legal, advantage; including, most probably, many committees.

As with many things, over time the reason is lost.

 

[funkyfred]

I guess it would depend on what local rules are in place. Somewhere there should be a notice detailing what you can and cannot do when winter rules are in place.

To me, the point of winter rules is to protect the course. Having guys hacking plugged balls out is daft, and will do the course no favours at all. You could be plugged 3 foot off the green, just off the fringe, with only 12 ft to the flag. This is going back to the silly days of yester year.

Funny enough I was checking our local rules yesterday when I notice that one of the rules where that you can drop an embedded ball in our rough, not nearer the hole and the ball can not be cleaned.

 

[USER1999]

Sounds fair. I think we have a similar rule. I'd better check tomorrow.

 

[bobmac]

I think a sensible ruling and one I see at alot of clubs is
"plugged lie on the fairway....lift clean and place"
"plugged lie in the rough....lift clean and drop"

 

[MashieNiblick]

As indicated above, the usual rules permit an embedded ball on a closely mown area to be lifted, cleaned and dropped any time (Rule 25-2). Decision 25-2/5 specifically refers to grass faces of bunkers and, as stated, it depends whether they are cut to fairway height or less.

Winter rules often extend relief for embedded balls to anywhwere through the green (i.e. in the rough as well) especially if the course gets very wet in the winter. There is a recommended local rule in the Rules (Appendix I part B) for this which provides for the ball to be lifted, cleaned and dropped, but this may not necessarily be adopted even if preferred lies on the fairways are being played. You'd need to check what your club's winter rules are.

Whilst I agree a key objective of winter rules is to protect the course I think they are also intended to allow players to have a chance of a reasonable game without having to hit balls off mud patches or with great lumps of mud sticking to them. The Rules (Appendix 1 Part A) refer to "Temporary conditions that might interfere with proper playing of the game". It is after all just a game and supposed to be fun and the rules aren't always just about penalising players.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

This is a massive point of conjecture at our place at the moment. Loads of players were moaning about plugged lies in the rough. Don't go in the rough, says I.....

And then.....

My approach to the 10th green misses right. I was no more than 7 foot from the green with a plugged lie. I've missed the fringe and, technically, I'm in the rough.

So, no pick and place for me so, I either hack or take a shot penalty.

I hacked out.

I've NEVER seen a divot like it! I could have used a shovel and done less damage! I replaced the divot but the green was covered in mud.

We all agreed it's a rediculous situation but until the committee agree on a local rule, the course will continue to bear the brunt.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think it is very hard for most courses to cover all scenarios and most to be fair try and do the best they can while protecting the course and giving the members the best winter golf experience they can. I do think local factors like drainage etc need to be taken more into consideration though. We have a patch of rough to the right of 12 which is always sodden (and will be until at least May) but no casual water appears to help give you any relief and the ball will always plug on landing. Your left facing a downhill lie over a bunker toa green with a hazard behind. Enjoy

 

[Leftie]

Our winter rules allow for a ball anywhere on the course (except in a hazard) that is plugged in it's own pitchmark to be lifted, cleaned, and dropped/placed as near as blah blah.

Seems sensible to me.

 

[stef92]

Am I right in thinking that during the 2008 Open at Birkdale it happened to Greg Norman on the back nine on Sunday? He had to hack out!