Stack and tilt: let's have a heated debate

[virtuocity]

Your pro is teaching you stack and tilt, and videoing it for you too?

Erm, not quite. It was my first visit with her and whilst she was clearly not the biggest advocate of stack and tilt, she (coming from the Titleist TPI philosophy) was happy to offer advice based on what my body was most comfortable doing.

At present, my body is at its most comfortable loading more weight on my left side and making a big shoulder turn. The only difficulty I had was:

1. Making a consistent contact with the ball (2 drills provided)
2. Making a good hip turn on the downswing (told to concentrate on item 1 initially, thus the thread).

 

[stevelev]

does it matter whether it is a conventional swing a stack and tilt swing or a completely unconventional swing? No all we aim for is to hit the shot we want when we want and if we could do that with our current swing we'd be happy. I'd much rather people compliment on results rather than swings.

 

[JustOne]

does it matter whether it is a conventional swing a stack and tilt swing or a completely unconventional swing?

No, but lots of people can't perform the 'conventional' swing very well either (does that make their swing an unconventional one? if so what do you teach them?)... do you try to make it 'more' conventional? I don't think there is a standard for the 'conventional' swing.... and that being the case not many people ever master it OR find any consistency whatsoever (hence a lot of people have fairly high h/caps)

all we aim for is to hit the shot we want when we want and if we could do that with our current swing we'd be happy..

and if we can't? [see above] :thup:

 

[JustOne]

Erm, not quite. It was my first visit with her and whilst she was clearly not the biggest advocate of stack and tilt, she (coming from the Titleist TPI philosophy) was happy to offer advice based on what my body was most comfortable doing.

At present, my body is at its most comfortable loading more weight on my left side and making a big shoulder turn. The only difficulty I had was:

1. Making a consistent contact with the ball (2 drills provided)
2. Making a good hip turn on the downswing (told to concentrate on item 1 initially, thus the thread).

The hip turn isn't as important in S&T and possibly not the cause of your left arm bending at impact. In S&T the hips slide towards the target a little more in transition and then the hips TUCK under your torso whilst your legs straighten (extension), not the same as a conventional 'superfast spin of the hips!!

The possible cause (without seeing your swing) is that the ball is too far back in your stance or your hands are too far forwards. Both of these cause a steepening of the path and your body instinctively tries to stop the club from burying into the ground by lifting (bending) the left arm.... there's a few other reasons eg: it's possible you may also be bent forward too much, or even casting the club... blah blah blah.

That said, if you are HAPPY with what you are doing then keep doing it :thup:

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

If anyone would like any further information, or has any questions on how to use or implement the system please contact me via pm.

I'm one of four authorised instructors in the UK.

I've been lucky enough to have spent a great deal of time with Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett, and continue to do so.

My golf swing interests also lie with TGM and MORAD I'm fortunate enough to have spent many hours with the relevant instructors.

I really enjoy talking golf, learning and I invite your questions if you've any.

Sam

 

[JustOne]

If anyone would like any further information, or has any questions on how to use or implement the system please contact me via pm.

I'm one of four authorised instructors in the UK.

I've been lucky enough to have spent a great deal of time with Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett, and continue to do so.

My golf swing interests also lie with TGM and MORAD I'm fortunate enough to have spent many hours with the relevant instructors.

I really enjoy talking golf, learning and I invite your questions if you've any.

Sam

Hi Sam, why don't you stick around and answer some people's questions in the 'ask the experts' section? I'm sure that it'll help you in the long run as there are a lot of people here who have an interest in S&T, and probably a lot that would be prepared to have lessons with you if you became a 'little popular' on the forum.

Just for some to see that a PGA PRO can actually advocate the S&T pattern will be a REVELATION!!!!



James. :cheers:

 

[G1BB0]

I totally agree with James, theres a select few that 'do it' but a lot more who would like to or who have read about it but not totally convinced (me being one).

just about to google TGM & MORAD

welcome to GM btw

 

[G1BB0]

wish I hadn't now lol

 

[Slime]

wish I hadn't now lol

Same as that. How muddied can it get?

Slime.

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

I may stick around! Initially if anyone has any questions please be in touch!

I've a catalogue of thousands of pictures confirming the information, some of which Id be happy to share!

Best

Sam

 

[virtuocity]

Well, I'll get the ball rolling Sam with a few questions of my own.

1. Will a baseball grip work with S&T or is Vardon a necessity?
2. Backswing- how much AROUND the body should the club go. Should it be a really steep arc?
3. Downswing- please describe this in a simple way. I've always struggled with this due to not being flexible and liking pies too much, therefore getting my hip out of the way has been very difficult. I'm struggling with irons particularly. Having looked at the book there seems to be TOO MUCH info for me to get my head around.

Thanks!

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

Well, I'll get the ball rolling Sam with a few questions of my own.

1. Will a baseball grip work with S&T or is Vardon a necessity?

Yes, the grip is not a fundamental.

2. Backswing- how much AROUND the body should the club go. Should it be a really steep arc?

The path of the hands and the club will follow an approximate 20 degree arc as traced on the ground with the clubhead tracing between the elbow and shoulder plane.

3. Downswing- please describe this in a simple way. I've always struggled with this due to not being flexible and liking pies too much, therefore getting my hip out of the way has been very difficult. I'm struggling with irons particularly. Having looked at the book there seems to be TOO MUCH info for me to get my head around.

You do not need flexibility, nor do you need to get your hip out of the way, the left hip will move in a predominantly linear motion during the course of the downswing.

Thanks!

Sam

 

[virtuocity]

Thanks Sam,

Just a little more info on the downswing would be great. So you have told me that my flexibility is not a problem- great!

So what has my swing path on the downswing to be like? Do I need to try and hit down on the ball?

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

Thanks Sam,

Just a little more info on the downswing would be great. So you have told me that my flexibility is not a problem- great!

So what has my swing path on the downswing to be like? Do I need to try and hit down on the ball?

Flexibility really is not an issue at all. This is a misconception, I'm not saying increased flexibility isn't beneficial just that the golfer doesn't have to be as flexible as many perceive.

The low point of the swing is underneath the left shoulder, thus you've hit the ball already so all being correct you'd have hit down and out.

In terms of the path on the dowsing - PM your email and Im happy to send a couple of pictures to illustrate, easier than words!

Sam

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

Consider the picture attached of many of the games greats demonstrating the 'flying wedge'.

 

[Slime]

Hi Sam, why don't you stick around and answer some people's questions in the 'ask the experts' section? I'm sure that it'll help you in the long run as there are a lot of people here who have an interest in S&T, and probably a lot that would be prepared to have lessons with you if you became a 'little popular' on the forum.

Just for some to see that a PGA PRO can actually advocate the S&T pattern will be a REVELATION!!!!

I fancy a piece of that action.
I've tentatively got Dec 8th in mind for a bit of a group lesson...................an introduction to S&T kinda thing.
If three or four of you want to get involved, drop him an e-mail (samquirke@me.com) or a PM or something.
I've been self-teaching for a while with the aid of the S&T book, and tons of tips from JustOne of course, but it would be great to actually see it for real being demonstrated by a Bennett & Plummer authorised teaching pro.
Maybe some theory followed by some practical...........................it's like being back at school!
Just a thought,

Slime.

 

[G1BB0]

I am all over this, got the book & dvd's, just didnt dedicate the time to it as was more inclined to hack around the course than oput the effort in. Now I have set my self all winter to sort my swing out as I feel 4 months of effort will see much bigger benefits on the course, better scores and more enjoyment

 

[G1BB0]

1st 'attempt' at s&t esque swing tonight. A bit hit and miss due to getting a bit ballsed up and the old hanging on the back foot kicking in. Ball striking was decent overall with the vast majority dead straight! distance was very good aswell with several 9 irons hitting the 150yd marker (I know it was at the range so will take with a pinch of salt). Been watching a few drills vids on youtube and watching the dvd's again. More practice tomorrow night and no doubt every night therafter... watch this space

 

[Slime]

1st 'attempt' at s&t esque swing tonight. A bit hit and miss due to getting a bit ballsed up and the old hanging on the back foot kicking in. Ball striking was decent overall with the vast majority dead straight! distance was very good aswell with several 9 irons hitting the 150yd marker (I know it was at the range so will take with a pinch of salt). Been watching a few drills vids on youtube and watching the dvd's again. More practice tomorrow night and no doubt every night therafter... watch this space

Keep going & keep us posted.

Slime.

 

[Morecambe hacker]

1st 'attempt' at s&t esque swing tonight. A bit hit and miss due to getting a bit ballsed up and the old hanging on the back foot kicking in. Ball striking was decent overall with the vast majority dead straight! distance was very good aswell with several 9 irons hitting the 150yd marker (I know it was at the range so will take with a pinch of salt). Been watching a few drills vids on youtube and watching the dvd's again. More practice tomorrow night and no doubt every night therafter... watch this space

I'm like you mate just trying it out after deciding to take a trip to the dark side. Book still hasn't turned but after hours of YouTube vids I've tried it once on a local playing field and Saturday straight on the course. First impressions??? WOW!!! Ball striking is miles better, nice shallow divots few inches ahead of ball and improved distances. I'm not a big hitter but my playing partner is & I was matching him yard for yard but 1 club less which I massive for me. A first in my golf career 3 straight birdie opportunities ( a par 5, par 3, par 3) missed all 3 lol due to mega slow greens but them 3 chances is a massive advance for me so fills me with confidence and its making me realise I've made the right decision. No shots are a draw as of yet bar 1 but all dead straight also it allows me to actually hit my 5 iron which I really struggle with (not now tho!) also hit a par 3 6iron uphill green wind in face only to find it 7 inches left of a first hole in 1!! Driver & 3 wood total cack lol never worked at all, huge snap hooks but 4 hybrid right through to 64 degree ultra lob wedge very happy with progress so far. Can't wait for my book cos I think this is the best decision I've made regarding my own personal swing/game.