Speeding in a thirty limit

[Deleted member 15344]

51 cars involved and 10 deaths. But the original cause was a driver falling asleep and a large contributing factor to that was fog. So again it wasn't speed that was to blame but tiredness and inappropriate speed for the conditions. The reports said that the cars were travelling at 70mph so none of them were speeding but they were driving too fast for the conditions.

I hate quoting wikipedia but this was the first report I came to.....

"On 13 March 1991, a multiple-vehicle collision occurred during foggy conditions on the eastbound carriageway of the M4 motorway near Hungerford, Berkshire, between the Membury service station and junction 14.Ten people were killed in the pile-up, which involved 51 vehicles, making it one of the deadliest crashes in the history of Britain's motorway network.
[h=2]At 2:15 p.m. on 13 March 1991, a driver fell asleep at the wheel of his van and skidded into the central reservation. A car travelling behind the van changed lanes to avoid contact but other vehicles behind, which were travelling at speeds averaging 70 miles per hour, failed to avoid the crashed van and skidded into the other lanes of the carriageway. Others took evasive action by driving onto the hard shoulder and up the sides of the cutting. An articulated lorry then jack-knifed across all three lanes of the eastbound carriageway". [/h]

it was more in response to everyone travelling in the same direction and on fairly straight roads

And yes it happened at the speed limit - imagine if the cars were travelling faster - possibly more deaths.

Some people also made some awful choices whilst it was going on.

 

[stevie_r]

Nah

you can use this one

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/05/two-killed-crash-m1-motorway

or this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-25211672

or this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-25290043

or this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23968776

or this one

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...G472kl0IcfSC0KRr0ERshGw&bvm=bv.59930103,d.ZGU

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/27/car-sliced-in-two-in-m11-crash_n_4509301.html

at a quick glance think most of them if not all are from the last 6-12 months

Earth shattering revelations - occasionally people crash cars!!
Nowhere in the first few of those is excessive speed mentioned as being the cause. If you are that terrified of the dangers of motorway driving then you could just stay in your house.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Nah

you can use this one

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/05/two-killed-crash-m1-motorway

or this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-25211672

or this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-25290043

or this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23968776

or this one

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...G472kl0IcfSC0KRr0ERshGw&bvm=bv.59930103,d.ZGU

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/27/car-sliced-in-two-in-m11-crash_n_4509301.html

at a quick glance think most of them if not all are from the last 6-12 months

Have had a quick look at all of those and can't see anywhere that it says that the accidents were caused by speeding. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

EDIT - and a lot of them seem to be single vehicle accidents rather than multi vehicle collisions. Surely the former can only be put down to either poor driving/driver error or mechanical malfunction.

 

[brendy]

With regards to raising the speed limits, if nothing else changes, I think it is fine where it is.
If lanes were segregated off some way then a 90mph lane (or whatever raised limit) would be great as long as there was no chance of lane weavers being able to get near that lane. My only concern would be poor conditions and you could end up with people driving in excess of the conditions simply because a lane says it is ok to do so.
Cars made in the last 15-20 years are far better equipped to deal with emergency stops/heavy braking etc and are much more stable at higher speeds BUT, and heres the but, not all cars are maintained with fresh brakes, tyres and 100% alert drivers. As long as there is a human element, there will always be accidents and adding more speed to the equation is asking for trouble.

 

[Phil2511]

thing about stats and studies is they are worthless in the general jist of things

for every study and statistic that one obsessive uses there will be another that says the exact opposite to be used by the anti's in the world

such is life

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Earth shattering revelations - occasionally people crash cars!!
Nowhere in the first few of those is excessive speed mentioned as being the cause. If you are that terrified of the dangers of motorway driving then you could just stay in your house.

you were using the fact that we all go in the same direction on the motorway and its fairly straight it appears as some sort of justification to raise the speed limits on motorways

Those are just a few crashes already appearing on our motorways at 70mph - let alone any higher

Do you think the amount would increase or decrease if the speed on the motorways increased ?

 

[chris661]

Nah

you can use this one

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/05/two-killed-crash-m1-motorway no mention of speed

or this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-25211672 again no mention of speed

or this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-25290043 oops or in this one

or this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23968776 Hmm no speed mentioned in this one I see a pattern forming

or this one

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...G472kl0IcfSC0KRr0ERshGw&bvm=bv.59930103,d.ZGU

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/27/car-sliced-in-two-in-m11-crash_n_4509301.html

at a quick glance think most of them if not all are from the last 6-12 months

So all of those reports never mentioned speeds at all but a couple mentioned fog etc. So it isn't speed per se but inappropriate speed. Kinda makes your belief in the arbitrary speed limits look kind of silly.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Have had a quick look at all of those and can't see anywhere that it says that the accidents were caused by speeding. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

EDIT - and a lot of them seem to be single vehicle accidents rather than multi vehicle collisions. Surely the former can only be put down to either poor driving/driver error or mechanical malfunction.

Those are accidents already happening at 70mph - will ask the same question - do you think the amount will increase or decrease if the speed limit was increased ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So all of those reports never mentioned speeds at all but a couple mentioned fog etc. So it isn't speed per se but inappropriate speed. Kinda makes your belief in the arbitrary speed limits look kind of silly.

never said any of those accidents were caused by speeding

Those are just a tiny snippet of accidents already happening on our motorways with the speed limit at 70.

 

[stevie_r]

you were using the fact that we all go in the same direction on the motorway and its fairly straight it appears as some sort of justification to raise the speed limits on motorways

Those are just a few crashes already appearing on our motorways at 70mph - let alone any higher

Do you think the amount would increase or decrease if the speed on the motorways increased ?

You took a part of my post to try and prove your fairly weak argument - try considering the post as a whole. Your list of motorway accidents was pointless and proves nothing. Do you want me to post tons of links to accidents on A roads, the A9 for example? I won't, because like your post it would be fairly meaningless.

Increase the speed limit on motorways and I doubt you would see any significant increase in fatalities due to speed, you will invariably find that there are other primary causes.

 

[stevie_r]

With regards to raising the speed limits, if nothing else changes, I think it is fine where it is.
If lanes were segregated off some way then a 90mph lane (or whatever raised limit) would be great as long as there was no chance of lane weavers being able to get near that lane. My only concern would be poor conditions and you could end up with people driving in excess of the conditions simply because a lane says it is ok to do so.
Cars made in the last 15-20 years are far better equipped to deal with emergency stops/heavy braking etc and are much more stable at higher speeds BUT, and heres the but, not all cars are maintained with fresh brakes, tyres and 100% alert drivers. As long as there is a human element, there will always be accidents and adding more speed to the equation is asking for trouble.

You mean like they do already?

 

[brendy]

I am surprised noone has put up the detailed reports of the millions of accidents per day that never happened...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You took a part of my post to try and prove your fairly weak argument - try considering the post as a whole. Your list of motorway accidents was pointless and proves nothing. Do you want me to post tons of links to accidents on A roads, the A9 for example? I won't, because like your post it would be fairly meaningless.

Increase the speed limit on motorways and I doubt you would see any significant increase in fatalities due to speed, you will invariably find that there are other primary causes.

How do you know you wouldnt see any significant increase ? And surely one more accident is significant ?

Can you show me what you are using to form the opinion that an increase in speed wouldnt mean an increase in collisions on a motorway.

 

[Ethan]

Ask the cops which are safer - motorways (even the M4) or rural roads.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

How do you know you wouldnt see any significant increase ? And surely one more accident is significant ?

Can you show me what you are using to form the opinion that an increase in speed wouldnt mean an increase in collisions on a motorway.

Because very simply. the majority of cars on the motorway already ignore the speed limit as it is outdated, they travel at 80 already

raising the limit to 80 wont cause them to go faster, as they then will start burning huge amounts of expensive petrol.

You will always get the odd idiot doing over a ton and yes they need locking up,

I rest my case

 

[stevie_r]

How do you know you wouldnt see any significant increase ? And surely one more accident is significant ?

Can you show me what you are using to form the opinion that an increase in speed wouldnt mean an increase in collisions on a motorway.

I think you will find that I used the words 'I doubt' rather than I know, it is an opinion formed by my brain and over 25 years of driving experience.

I see you have decided not to comment on the portion of my post regarding A roads and closing speeds.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because very simply. the majority of cars on the motorway already ignore the speed limit as it is outdated, they travel at 80 already

raising the limit to 80 wont cause them to go faster, as they then will start burning huge amounts of expensive petrol.

You will always get the odd idiot doing over a ton and yes they need locking up,

I rest my case

So you dont think because people see the limit is 70 - push it by going to 80

Those same people who see the limit is now 80 - can see that the police give them 10 mph will suddenly start doing 90 ?

People seem ok to go past the speed limit to go to 80-85 - so why wouldnt they do the same if the limit was raised ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think you will find that I used the words 'I doubt' rather than I know, it is an opinion formed by my brain and over 25 years of driving experience.

I see you have decided not to comment on the portion of my post regarding A roads and closing speeds.

I have no problems with your comments on A roads - i agree they are dangerous when you have the possibilties of head on collisions.

 

[stevie_r]

Ask the cops which are safer - motorways (even the M4) or rural roads.

I live in a fairly rural area and believe the roads to be far more dangerous than motorways. Applying the NSL across a lot of rural roads is ridiculous, the amount of potential hazards around the next bend are many and varied.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ask the cops which are safer - motorways (even the M4) or rural roads.

More deaths occur in rural roads because of the magic hour - the reduced chance to get people to emergency services within that first hour

There is no doubt that rural roads are more dangerous