So if Force = Mass x Acceleration..

[standrew]

How does that relate to the club and swing and how can i maximise club head speed? Im 5 '7 and currently use a pretty short driver, however i have a lot of upper and lower body strength, so i can swing a heavier club quickly.

Would a heavier shaft and/ or clubhead maximise distance for me, or would a longer driver be more effective?

(i did chemistry A level not Physics!)

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How does that relate to the club and swing and how can i maximise club head speed? Im 5 '7 and currently use a pretty short driver, however i have a lot of upper and lower body strength, so i can swing a heavier club quickly.

Would a heavier shaft and/ or clubhead maximise distance for me, or would a longer driver be more effective?

(i did chemistry A level not Physics!)

I think ( im prob wrong ) but dont the shaft weights go up with the stiffness ?

So if you swing faster with a heavier club then im going to suggest the ball will go further ?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It's not as simple as your title. You also have to hit the sweet spot, and make sure the clubhead is moving at it's fastest at impact.

A longer driver shaft would give more distance if you can do what I said above but is also harder to control. If you go too long you will find it will be impossible to hit without choking down which defeats the object.

The bottom line is you don't have to be particularly strong to hit a ball a long way, you just need good technique, good timing or preferably both. Watch the pro's, for most of them it is effortless power (there are obvious exceptions).

I'm sure the experts will be a long with some more technical tips but my advice would be concentrate on technique and timing rather than trying to smack it as hard as you can.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It's not as simple as your title. You also have to hit the sweet spot, and make sure the clubhead is moving at it's fastest at impact.

A longer driver shaft would give more distance if you can do what I said above but is also harder to control. If you go too long you will find it will be impossible to hit without choking down which defeats the object.

The bottom line is you don't have to be particularly strong to hit a ball a long way, you just need good technique, good timing or preferably both. Watch the pro's, for most of them it is effortless power (there are obvious exceptions).

I'm sure the experts will be a long with some more technical tips but my advice would be concentrate on technique and timing rather than trying to smack it as hard as you can.

Dont the pros look deceptive though

For example Els looks like he has a swing of about 60 miles an hour but is actually hitting it around 115 ? Are most pros like that with swing speeds that high - obviously with the added timing and control

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Dont the pros look deceptive though

For example Els looks like he has a swing of about 60 miles an hour but is actually hitting it around 115 ? Are most pros like that with swing speeds that high - obviously with the added timing and control

That was really my point LP. Effortless power. SS is measured at impact so trying to swing really hard without the proper technique\timing doesn't lead to a higher SS as power is wasted before getting to the ball.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That was really my point LP. Effortless power. SS is measured at impact so trying to swing really hard without the proper technique\timing doesn't lead to a higher SS as power is wasted before getting to the ball.

Wouldnt be the first time i have missed one

 

[SocketRocket]

Its not all about swing speed and the F=MxA is not directly related the golf ball. The ball needs to be compressed against the clubface so it deforms then springs back off the face. Compression over distance is the factor to consider and solid impact will give this, not just clubhead speed.

 

[the_coach]

Really it's about being able to move/swing the club, to create that force/speed to most efficiently move the club head at the fastest speed you're able to whilst still being able to freely control both the path, swing direction, angle of attack & centeredness of strike still being in balance, with rhythm & timing. That produces the optimum transfer of energy from the clubhead to the ball, force, ball speed, so distance.

Looking at the basic elements of a golf swing, an effective efficient golf swing has to be a 'stable on-plane force' thats delivered through impact. The most efficient golf swing motion is a rotational pulling force.

Through bio-mechanics we know that when muscles contract/shorten it creates a 'pull' on the bone that the muscle tendon is attached, this produces movement, velocity.
These muscle actions are called concentric control. the opposite, so deceleration of motion is controlled by the muscles 'lengthening', eccentric control.

In a golf swing that's a ways effective there are these 'pulling forces' (the shortening of the muscles involved) through impact that are applying and aligning force down into the ball.(pulling - as the hands always pass the ball before impact, before the club head)
The muscles work in pairs, 'agonist' and 'antagonist'. So when one muscle shortens or 'pulls' it causes its paired to relax and lengthen, shortening or 'pull' happens first in the sequence causing the antagonist muscle to relax and lengthen.
So when the 'mass' of the golf club is 'pulled' effectively the body's muscle system involved in the motion is shortening and lengthening pairs of muscles.

Distance is all about the most efficient on plane force at impact.

So it's about the 'shape' of the swing & the sources of that force.

The shape of the swing, swing plane, if the club is on it's natural plane, the swing can then happen with almost no compensatory motions so the club stays virtually parallel to the angle the shaft occupied at address through impact. (any compensatory manipulations during the swing causing it to leave plane will effectively slow it's moment through the swing to impact, less speed than could have been produced through impact than if it had stayed on plane.

The swings sources of power/force/speed, is greatest when the clubhead is staying behind the golfer's hands through impact (pulling forces), then efficient force, and not effort becomes the swings source of power. (hence why the majority Tour golfers swings, the ones that do all this most efficiently, make it appear to be so easy to do)

So to 'get' more speed, you first have to improve the shape of the swing, the balance & timing in a correctly timed sequence of motion in order to achieve the optimum force/power so speed through impact to transfer most efficiently the most energy to the ball to produce greatest distance possible from the swing.

 

[MadAdey]

Not the most technical answer coming here, but I was always told that a good strike will always go further than a hard swing. Sort of goes back to Point about Els that Phil made.

I had the pleasure of watching Els and Singh together at the Alfred Dunhill about 7 years ago. It was amazing to stand there and watch how far they hit the ball, without looking like they are trying smack the skin off it.

I think in my mind the best way to look at this is something i saw on TV a few years ago about how to hit the ball further. They demonstrated it with 2 6 inch nails and a piece of wood. Both nails got started into the wood. They then took a hammer and had a huge great hard swing at the first nail, knocked it in a bit and bent it over slightly. Then they hit the second with a firm hard controlled whack and buried it into the piece of wood. It showed that controlled energy transfer is far more effective.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Really it's about being able to move/swing the club, to create that force/speed to most efficiently move the club head at the fastest speed you're able to whilst still being able to freely control both the path, swing direction, angle of attack & centeredness of strike still being in balance, with rhythm & timing. That produces the optimum transfer of energy from the clubhead to the ball, force, ball speed, so distance.

Looking at the basic elements of a golf swing, an effective efficient golf swing has to be a 'stable on-plane force' thats delivered through impact. The most efficient golf swing motion is a rotational pulling force.

Through bio-mechanics we know that when muscles contract/shorten it creates a 'pull' on the bone that the muscle tendon is attached, this produces movement, velocity.
These muscle actions are called concentric control. the opposite, so deceleration of motion is controlled by the muscles 'lengthening', eccentric control.

In a golf swing that's a ways effective there are these 'pulling forces' (the shortening of the muscles involved) through impact that are applying and aligning force down into the ball.(pulling - as the hands always pass the ball before impact, before the club head)
The muscles work in pairs, 'agonist' and 'antagonist'. So when one muscle shortens or 'pulls' it causes its paired to relax and lengthen, shortening or 'pull' happens first in the sequence causing the antagonist muscle to relax and lengthen.
So when the 'mass' of the golf club is 'pulled' effectively the body's muscle system involved in the motion is shortening and lengthening pairs of muscles.

Distance is all about the most efficient on plane force at impact.

So it's about the 'shape' of the swing & the sources of that force.

The shape of the swing, swing plane, if the club is on it's natural plane, the swing can then happen with almost no compensatory motions so the club stays virtually parallel to the angle the shaft occupied at address through impact. (any compensatory manipulations during the swing causing it to leave plane will effectively slow it's moment through the swing to impact, less speed than could have been produced through impact than if it had stayed on plane.

The swings sources of power/force/speed, is greatest when the clubhead is staying behind the golfer's hands through impact (pulling forces), then efficient force, and not effort becomes the swings source of power. (hence why the majority Tour golfers swings, the ones that do all this most efficiently, make it appear to be so easy to do)

So to 'get' more speed, you first have to improve the shape of the swing, the balance & timing in a correctly timed sequence of motion in order to achieve the optimum force/power so speed through impact to transfer most efficiently the most energy to the ball to produce greatest distance possible from the swing.

Isn't that what I said?

 

[backwoodsman]

The equation does all in fact relate to the ball. F = force applied to the ball. M = mass of the ball and A = acceleration of the ball.

Look at it another way by rearranging the equation. A=F/M; acceleration of ball equals the force applied to it divided by the balls mass. Obviously the force applied comes from the club but it depends on both the energy within the club and the efficiency with which it is transferred to the ball. The skill of our game is the "transfer". Naught is gained if the club has more energy but less is transferred to the ball. Therefore hitting the ball properly is the key. Which is what the others have said. If you can hit with a faster moving or heavier club without compromising the "correctness" of the strike - ie the energy transfer - so much the better. But for most mortals, more weight/speed means less control.

Concentrate on the swing.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Read this, and the other stuff

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swingwt5.php#total_weight

What he is suggesting is that head weight, within "normal" limits has little to do with distance & that the most important factors are clubhewd speed & launch angle, these two having much more effect than backspin.

I' be read this stuff for hours. Don't understand all of it but it's fascinating.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Just another point. For maximum distance the club should not ​be accelerating at impact, it should have reached maximum speed. The feeling that you are acceeleratng, however, is a good one because it encourages you to continue applying the power until impact. It's not mass x acceleration that moves the ball it's the transfer of energy from a large moving object toa small stationary one.

 

[Foxholer]

The laws of motion also apply to the body/club relationship too - a heavier club requires more force to swing; a lighter one can be accelerated more with the same force!

The key equation (at impact) isn't so much Newton's 2nd Law as the equations of inelastic collisions!

But , up to a point, it's very likely that you will be able to swing a club with a lighter shaft faster than a heavier one. At KoD, I gained 4 mph using a 50gm shaft as opposed to my 80gm one. That is, after all, why lighter/ultralight shafts - like the C-Kua - that 'perform' the same were developed!

Optimising length weight and centredness of strike to a particular swing is what fitting is all about. The Physics merely explains it - it shouldn't drive it!

As MiB has posted, Tutelman quite literally wrote the book on The Physics of the Golf Swing!

 

[delc]

Not an easy question to answer. A heavier club head will transfer more energy to the ball, but cannot be swung as fast by an average human being. Generally clubs are designed to be about the optimum weight for most distance. Stiff shafted clubs are usually slightly heavier than regular shafted ones.

You could try adding lead tape to the club head and see what happens. :fore:

 

[MattM]

The key thing is the transfer of 'Energy' from the club to the ball.

As the club head is moving (i.e. has Kinetic energy) the relevant equation is (Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass x velocity squared). So the most efficient way to increase kinetic energy of the club head is to increase velocity (i.e. speed).

It is then down to technique how effective the transfer of energy to the ball is (i.e. can your technique cope with the increased speed of the club head to deliver it to the ball correctly so that as much energy as possible is transferred)

 

[duncan mackie]

the simplest way to see why it's club head speed rather than club weight is to recognise that generally it's the velocity squared that matters, as Matt posts in #16 whether you consider kinetic energy, momentum etc in terms of the energy being delivered.

how that energy translates to the motion of the ball will involve the physical conditions at impact (club head & ball) which can be considered constants in this context ie for the same ball and club, and the dynamic conditions at impact - the player's contribution!

 

[Hacker Khan]

As other have said, make sure you hit it in the sweet spot most of the time. Then worry about the rest after that.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Hit it, find it and hit it again. I know everyone would prefer a few extra yards but if you can hit an average (not forum) distance and keep it on the short grass you're never going to be badly off

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I was always told that a good strike will always go further than a hard swing.

recall a teaching article by John Jacobs from the 70s (GW or GM) - paraphrasing as I remember it - 'you hit the ball further by hitting it better not by hitting it harder'. To this day I have that in mind when I am playing - so always seeking the sweet strike rather than just the one that goes a long way.