Smacking

[Foxholer]

There is no silver bullet but there are a few things to look at. Firstly, teacher training. A good teacher will control a class, no matter what the pupils are like. There have always been naughty kids yet somehow we can all remember teachers that would hold a class in their hand. We need that knowledge of how to do it to be spread throughout. Hard to do as for some it is not their nature to be commanding, not threatening but commanding.

You need a head teacher that enforces a good culture within the school. They need to have rules, enforce them, back the teachers. Teachers and pupils then know exactly where they stand, there are no weak lines to push against.

Pupils, as MiB pointed out a lot of problems now occur due to the breakdown of the family, a lack of positive family role models. If a school is in an area where this is prevelant then they are likely to encounter more issues. At this point the school needs a good welfare dept. They can help the kids in trouble, find out what the problems are, see what can be done for them, engage the parents (if the parents want to be engaged) If you ever watched the Educating Yorkshire programme that school was in a problem area but had a great welfare section. The ladies in there knew the home problems of the kids, tried to help them and keep them in school. Every naughty kid had a story, a reason why they did what they did. Most of them were sad stories, they needed help, hope, a reason to learn not a whack. Obviously some kids are plain horrible, get them out of the system and leave the other kids to learn.

There is more than the above, it is complicated, but it is a start.

It was going so well until the bold bit!

Btw. My ex was one of those teachers (ended up as a Deputy Head) who could spot the kid(s) that simply needed a hug and was quite capable of doing so. And at 5'4 in high heels, she could also reduce big, gangly bullies to jibbering wrecks within 15 seconds!

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I am 54, caning was common place. As was the slipper, or a ruler. Picking kids up by the hair was frowned on, but not forbidden. Getting hit by a black board rubber wasn't pleasant either, but then you should be paying attention. Oddly, catching the flipping thing earned you a caning for being smart.

The one that always got me was everyone who hadn't had a whack during the day had to queue up at the end, and get one anyway, on the basis you probably just hadn't been caught. Nice.

Hope that isn't a real story, made me chuckle tho and I feel dirty for laughing at it in case it is a real story, cheers

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It was going so well until the bold bit!

Btw. My ex was one of those teachers (ended up as a Deputy Head) who could spot the kid(s) that simply needed a hug and was quite capable of doing so. And at 5'4 in high heels, she could also reduce big, gangly bullies to jibbering wrecks within 15 seconds!

Sorry about that. It was a sop to the whackers so they didn't think I was a complete hippy . I was not referring then to very young kids, more certain 15-16yr olds who can at that stage be beyond redemption within a school system.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

They still actually birched people when I was very young.
The taws, a belt on the @rse with a gym shoe or a clip round the ear was normal in my time at Secondary school. [1960's]
The teachers who used physical punishment were nearly always the poor ones who could not control a class.

Hitting a child is nowadays is very 'old school'.
Well done the Scottish Government.
First in the UK with smoking in public ban, plastic shopping bag ban, minimum alcohol pricing and now smacking.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

They still actually birched people when I was very young.
The taws, a belt on the @rse with a gym shoe or a clip round the ear was normal in my time at Secondary school. [1960's]
The teachers who used physical punishment were nearly always the poor ones who could not control a class.

Hitting a child is nowadays is very 'old school'.
Well done the Scottish Government.
First in the UK with smoking in public ban, plastic shopping bag ban, minimum alcohol pricing and now smacking.

I got quite a lot of the belt (tawse) at school as I could be a bit of a cheeky smart alec pain in the backside. Indeed I would wind up one teacher in a deliberate attempt to get her to belt me - she was hopeless and so I thought it was funny...

My BIG worry was that my dad would find out, as he did when I got five off the heedie and my hands were so swollen I couldn't help but he found out. And for that I got a skelp off my dad when home. I made sure I never got belted by the heedie again.

So even back in the day getting the belt at school had little or no impact unless the home environment supported what was going on at school. I had respect for my dad - he expected respect given the sacrifices that he and my mum made for us children.

 

[Khamelion]

Getting the belt across the hands was common place at my middle school (9 - 13 yrs) and quite a few of the school idiots did get belted regularly, for them it was seen as a mark respect among their peers. Did that mentally scar them or give them respect, I wouldn't think so, for the most part the majority of them were bad apples and one I know did and up serving time, still is I believe.

As for getting smacked, I was smacked occasionally as a kid and it did me no harm, I smacked my daughter once, but mainly it was my loud shouty voice which was sufficient to bring her into line.

Do I think banning smacking is correct, no I do not, its just more mamby pamby nanny state officialdom. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen parents who are clearly against smacking telling their kid off in a supermarket...

... in a very softly spoken voice the parent is speaking to their kid who is kicking off and just repeats over over to try and calm the kid, when a smack or a loud shout** would be sufficient shock to jar the kid back into line.

**I will caveat that though with, just what you see may not be the whole story. My other half works with autistic kids and something could've triggered the kid and being calm is the only way to resolve the issue, so in somewhat contradicting myself, it's best not to judge based on just what you see.

 

[Khamelion]

In addtion to my scrawlings above, the state should bring back public floggings, coporal punishment, the birch to those who offend. I don't care that this is a modern civilised society, going medievel in punishment for some crimes could be a better deterrent that a judge giving 50 hours community service.

 

[Marshy77]

As a teacher you're not allowed to give a child a hug.

 

[Papas1982]

I don't see the use of it as a bad thing tbh. I'm just about young enough that it never happened at school. Could tell some of the teachers missed it.


My issue with parents doing it is more that some use it for everything. Spill a drink, slap. Be cheeky, slap. Don't instantly clean their room, slap. I saw a mum slap her little kid of about 2/3 recently because he wouldnt eat his lunch! That'll have kids terrified and obviously isn't when it should be used.

I've not laid a hand on my girls and hopefully I'll never have too. Them being a little gobby or lazy etc wouldnt have me consider it. But if I found them bullying for example then theyd be left in no uncertain terms they'd had their one warning.

In later life certain things have harsh punishments, but if they've never had to consider them before then they may not be too concerned.

As to the discussion about bad classes being beciase of poor teachers. We had some aweso e teachers at school, now I look back at some of their efforts

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In addtion to my scrawlings above, the state should bring back public floggings, coporal punishment, the birch to those who offend. I don't care that this is a modern civilised society, going medievel in punishment for some crimes could be a better deterrent that a judge giving 50 hours community service.

Not then much of a step to return of capital punishment. No, No thrice No

You don't need to physically hit someone to humiliate or shame them - if that is what you are after.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Not then much of a step to return of capital punishment. No, No thrice No

String em up I say 🤣

 

[Foxholer]

Sorry about that. It was a sop to the whackers so they didn't think I was a complete hippy . I was not referring then to very young kids, more certain 15-16yr olds who can at that stage be beyond redemption within a school system.

Nor was I!

It was those 15-16yr olds (and maybe a year or so younger) that I was referring to/she dealt with (as teacher and DH at a 'difficult' 2ndry school) too.

Do you have a solution for those 'beyond redemption' or are you simply going to cast them on the scrap-heap?

 

[need_my_wedge]

I am 54, caning was common place. As was the slipper, or a ruler. Picking kids up by the hair was frowned on, but not forbidden. Getting hit by a black board rubber wasn't pleasant either, but then you should be paying attention. Oddly, catching the flipping thing earned you a caning for being smart.

The one that always got me was everyone who hadn't had a whack during the day had to queue up at the end, and get one anyway, on the basis you probably just hadn't been caught. Nice.

I'm 54 too, went to a grammar school in London for a couple of years. We had a Greek math teacher that was very fond of chucking a wooden board eraser at you if you were talking or not paying attention. We had a crazy French teacher that had his own personal short cane in the drawer, you'd get it across the hand if you misbehaved, he would only send down for the official cane (with the record book) for repeat offenders. I had the cane on the hand one time, it hurt a lot. I remember seeing him give someone 6 of the best with the official cane once, the way he whipped through really was enough to deter me and most everyone else. The RE teacher kept a slipper in his drawer, we also had a PE teacher who would make you all kneel in a line for any one person misbehaving, and he would walk the length of line behind you, giving everyone a tap on the head with a cricket bat.

 

[Khamelion]

Not then much of a step to return of capital punishment. No, No thrice No

You don't need to physically hit someone to humiliate or shame them - if that is what you are after.

Very true you do not, but after 15mins minutes of humiliation, all is forgotten, unless the criminal is a particular sensitive sole, but remember the pain of a public flogging would last a lot longer.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I am 54, caning was common place. As was the slipper, or a ruler. Picking kids up by the hair was frowned on, but not forbidden. Getting hit by a black board rubber wasn't pleasant either, but then you should be paying attention. Oddly, catching the flipping thing earned you a caning for being smart.

The one that always got me was everyone who hadn't had a whack during the day had to queue up at the end, and get one anyway, on the basis you probably just hadn't been caught. Nice.

You sound old enough to have also been picked up from your chair by your sideburns.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I don't think it was banned untill the 80s. Although it was never used at schools I went to.
It's an archaic practice, I don't see how the threat of violence can be anyway conducive to good behaviour.

We built an empire on that.

 

[USER1999]

Hope that isn't a real story, made me chuckle tho and I feel dirty for laughing at it in case it is a real story, cheers

True as. Little Irish lady. Mental as. At the end of the year she cried, as she loved us all so much, and we were moving up a year. We would never have guessed.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I agree that there needs to be some form of deterrent but it can be a beneficial one. Ok I went to private school and so have not experienced many of the problems that others face and corporal punishment was always a threat in my early school days. The good old note to the parents used to work as the parents in the 70s would apply a suitable punishment and make it stick. I feel some parents cave in on a given punishment after only a few days.

On the more beneficial side, in later life punishment was running laps, after school pt sessions, writing out lists of important dates (amazing how many I still remember) and good old detention for an hour after school. Privileges were also removed and so you could not leave school grounds at lunchtime when everyone else went into town or you were dropped from school sports teams until the teacher reported an improvement in behaviour.

All of these were good deterrents and I do feel that some form of enforceable deterrent is needed. Thing is that parents need to support this and support teachers where some seem to bury their head in the sand and complain that it cannot possibly be their kid and even get abusive if the punishment inconveniences them.

if it was a boarding school (so there 24 hours in a day), can understand how things like that can have more of an effect.

One of the big differences of the last 10-20 years (IMHO) ** cliche alert ** was if you told your parents you had been strapped / caned etc you would be reprimanded for it, with the school getting the benefit of the doubt, its 180 degree turn now, with a "oh no, my little johnny would never do that sort of thing" benefit of the doubt to the kids.

Smacking should be optional for a parent, but excesses punished by law.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What era did you go to school? Seriously, I am pretty sure you are not old enough to be of that time.

I'm 49 and that was not allowed. Good teachers controlled their classes no matter who was in them, without canes, straps or slaps.

I’m 46 and it was allowed in my school

 

[robinthehood]

We built an empire on that.

Jersey and the isle of man 😂😂 and some windswept islands in the South Atlantic.
thats some empire