Slope ratings

[hairball_89]

Unless I'm reading it wrong I'm a bit disappointed with ours.. reds rated for females and rest rated for males

Should be all rated for both

Quite a lot of the courses I play (I'm on the sussex/kent border) are the same.

Presumably it's just taking an age to get all the data on the system!

 

[louise_a]

Unless I'm reading it wrong I'm a bit disappointed with ours.. reds rated for females and rest rated for males

Should be all rated for both

I know here in Lancashire the course ratings are done separately by men's and women's team, I guess they will rate the tees as requested. Hopefully going forward things will change

 

[Ethan]

Our course has always been regarded pretty tough and the slope rating reflects that; 148 whites and 151 from the tips.

What course is it and what are the course ratings? They are really the measure of difficulty for the better player, akin to SSS.

Slope is a measure of how proportionately more difficult it is for the bogey player.

 

[Foxholer]

...
And come to think of it, flag colours too. I’ve played courses where Yellow is the Front 9 and Red the Back, and courses where White denotes pin at the back of the green, Yellow in the centre and Red at the front. Why has there to date been no standardisation of this? Are there moves to do this?

The WHS stuff, like previous Congu stuff, is standardised, but everything else is down to how the particular club/course wants to do things. One previous club had flag colours that indicated position (but different to those above). Another had (5 from memory) zones for pins, with the zone for the day displayed near the 1st Tee. The card showed each hole's zones. Others provide a pin-sheet for the day that has yardages fom front & side that the pin is placed.

 

[rulefan]

I know here in Lancashire the course ratings are done separately by men's and women's team, I guess they will rate the tees as requested. Hopefully going forward things will change

Most counties ask the club which tees they want rating for which genders. But some seemingly don't mention the option, although both counties and clubs should be aware as a lot of publicity was given to the topic. I have had it suggested that after an initial surge of interest, the demand for multi gender tees has died off. Maybe cash and resource strapped counties have realised they can't afford it.

 

[woofers]

Unless I'm reading it wrong I'm a bit disappointed with ours.. reds rated for females and rest rated for males

Should be all rated for both

My understanding is that EG requested whites and yellows for males, red for females for all courses and would take on other new ratings when the initial phase was complete.
Having said that, we did get the red tees for males rated although currently there are no plans to use these for competitive male golf. Not been well received by the Ladies section though.
I also believe that a course measuring over 6,100 yards would not be measured for Ladies?

 

[Slab]

My understanding is that EG requested whites and yellows for males, red for females for all courses and would take on other new ratings when the initial phase was complete.
Having said that, we did get the red tees for males rated although currently there are no plans to use these for competitive male golf. Not been well received by the Ladies section though.
I also believe that a course measuring over 6,100 yards would not be measured for Ladies?

Might that be a territorial thing? The courses here (some measuring as much as 7,500+) have all been rated for women from all tees

 

[Swango1980]

Unless I'm reading it wrong I'm a bit disappointed with ours.. reds rated for females and rest rated for males

Should be all rated for both

I don't believe we ever had an option (I say that, I'm handicap secretary, but the Union would have organised with the Owner about the date they came to rate the course, so I knew nothing about it). Whites and Yellows were only measured for Men, Reds only for Ladies.
On recently redesigning the card, and sending the Draft off to Eagle, I specifically had Men written down in the yellow and white boxes, Women in the Red boxes. I thought that would be important just to clarify. However, every time their draft came back, they never added in the text, so we just decided to leave the card without the texts. Perhaps they had no room, but I'd have thought some clubs would be demanding that clarification (they'd obviously need it if they had ratings for both genders on the same tee)

 

[rulefan]

My understanding is that EG requested whites and yellows for males, red for females for all courses and would take on other new ratings when the initial phase was complete.
Having said that, we did get the red tees for males rated although currently there are no plans to use these for competitive male golf. Not been well received by the Ladies section though.
I also believe that a course measuring over 6,100 yards would not be measured for Ladies?

EG requested suggested whites and yellows for males, red for females. Other tees were at the discretion of the club with advice from the county. Or at least that's what I was told when I was responsible for our county rating.
6100 yards is certainly not a USGA Rating System constraint but it was suggested that we did not agree to rate courses that were simply too difficult or too easy, such that they would never be used in meaningful competition for that gender.

 

[rulefan]

I don't believe we ever had an option (I say that, I'm handicap secretary, but the Union would have organised with the Owner about the date they came to rate the course, so I knew nothing about it). Whites and Yellows were only measured for Men, Reds only for Ladies.
On recently redesigning the card, and sending the Draft off to Eagle, I specifically had Men written down in the yellow and white boxes, Women in the Red boxes. I thought that would be important just to clarify. However, every time their draft came back, they never added in the text, so we just decided to leave the card without the texts. Perhaps they had no room, but I'd have thought some clubs would be demanding that clarification (they'd obviously need it if they had ratings for both genders on the same tee)

Has Eagle done your Course Rating & Slope Rating boards/charts? Ours were done by K&M Golf (far cheaper than the Eagle discount offer) and do include the gender.
We have separate Men's and Women's cards so have no problem there.

 

[Swango1980]

Has Eagle done your Course Rating & Slope Rating boards/charts? Ours were done by K&M Golf (far cheaper than the Eagle discount offer) and do include the gender.
We have separate Men's and Women's cards so have no problem there.

Yes, Eagle are doing our boards. Still not got them, but hopefully they'll be with us in next few weeks.

 

[IanM]

Just checked my home course... it says it is par 71, not 72 as appears on current card. Might this be a typo or a regrade? None of the other courses locally are listed. And this starts next month? Na.

I also detect a slight "our slope is higher than your slope" developing!

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Quite a lot of the courses I play (I'm on the sussex/kent border) are the same.

Presumably it's just taking an age to get all the data on the system!

Sadly I fear not.

I believe ratings were only done for the tees specified by the club so if they didn't ask for gender neutral tees they won't have been done.

 

[rulefan]

Just checked my home course... it says it is par 71, not 72 as appears on current card. Might this be a typo or a regrade?

Rating takes no notice of par nor does it cause it to change.
The course par is simply the sum of the hole pars. But the recommended distance distances have changed slightly from CONGU to WHS. It may be that your club has adjusted a par 5 hole down to a par 4.

This is the WHS recommendation


This was the CONGU recommendation

Par is used for Par/Bogey, and Stableford competitions. Par for each hole should be established by
the club in relation to length and playing difficulty, within the following ranges:
Men
Par 3 Up to 250
Par 4 220 – 500
Par 5 440-720
Par 6660+

Women
Par 3 [Up to 210]
Par 4 [180 – 430]
Par 5 [370-620]
Par 6 [560+]

For example, if a hole is 460 [415] yards in length, it may be allocated a par of 4 or 5 depending upon its playing difficulty.

 

[sunshine]

I also detect a slight "our slope is higher than your slope" developing!

I have detected the same.

 

[sunshine]

EG requested suggested whites and yellows for males, red for females. Other tees were at the discretion of the club with advice from the county. Or at least that's what I was told when I was responsible for our county rating.

Although this makes sense for 99% of competitions, what happens for women's competitions for better golfers? Surely the Ladies County Championship for example is not played off the red tees. At most courses the red tees are really short and can't be a challenge to a female scratch golfer. At my club for example all the par threes are around 120 yards off the reds when they are up to 200 yards off the whites. I played behind a pro golfer last week (who won a Rose series event in the summer) and she played off the whites like me, the reds would have been a joke to her.

 

[AmandaJR]

I have detected the same.

For sure. I used to play at a course which was very marmite. Members always said anyone who didn't rate it couldn't play it as it was so hard. Not according to their slope rating. They'll be beside themselves!

 

[IanM]

Rating takes no notice of par nor does it cause it to change.
The course par is simply the sum of the hole pars. But the recommended distance distances have changed slightly from CONGU to WHS. It may be that your club has adjusted a par 5 hole down to a par 4.

This is the WHS recommendation

View attachment 32659
This was the CONGU recommendation

Par is used for Par/Bogey, and Stableford competitions. Par for each hole should be established by
the club in relation to length and playing difficulty, within the following ranges:
Men
Par 3 Up to 250
Par 4 220 – 500
Par 5 440-720
Par 6660+

Women
Par 3 [Up to 210]
Par 4 [180 – 430]
Par 5 [370-620]
Par 6 [560+]

For example, if a hole is 460 [415] yards in length, it may be allocated a par of 4 or 5 depending upon its playing difficulty.

No kidding. I only mentioned par.

The sum of our pars is 72. The site lists it as 71. So it's wrong. Not a surprise.

 

[Swango1980]

No kidding. A smidge patronising too if
I may be so bold.

I only mentioned par. BThe sum of our pars is 72. The site lists it as 71. So it's wrong. Not a surprise.

Don't mention par. It is worse than the "f" and the "c" words with rulefan around

 

[rulefan]

Although this makes sense for 99% of competitions, what happens for women's competitions for better golfers? Surely the Ladies County Championship for example is not played off the red tees. At most courses the red tees are really short and can't be a challenge to a female scratch golfer. At my club for example all the par threes are around 120 yards off the reds when they are up to 200 yards off the whites. I played behind a pro golfer last week (who won a Rose series event in the summer) and she played off the whites like me, the reds would have been a joke to her.

Most County Championships will be played at a limited number of elite courses. No doubt the hosting clubs have (with the County) arranged for appropriate tees to be rated. In the case of the ladies, either one of the men's rated tees or a selected mix of tees used only when the Championships are played will be used.
When we hosted the EWGA I walked the course with EWGA staff and they nominated which tees they wished to use and immediately arranged for them to be given a rating. It was an interesting mix of red, yellow and whites.