Silly question about Opens

[TigerTime]

It has been well over a year since I've played an Open competition and my mind has went blank.

I've got an open comp on Saturday, but the only info I've received is my tee time. What am I supposed to do on arrival? Check in and grab a card? How does the score go onto my WHS record? I think the last time it was possibly on the Scottish Golf app itself, but this one isn't.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Go to the pro shop, bar or wherever, and check in. Every open I've entered this year, I've had to give my cdh when booking. I'm guessing you have done this when you booked. They have your number so the card should be filled out with your details, h/c allowance for the comp.

I take it this is in Scotland and so likely to be individual strokeplay or stableford. Either way, you will either enter your score afterwards in the club computer or you hand your card in and someone there will do it. It then gets uploaded as though it was your home club.

Oh, and as it's an open, get there an hour before so that you can get your bacon / sausage buttie and tea / coffee. It isn't an open without your pre round snack

 

[rudebhoy]

Played in an 4bbb open this week. The guys on the desk said enter your individual scores in the computer, if you score over 42 points, your score will count on WHS. Thought that sounded bizarre, but put our scores in (less than 42) and nothing showed up on WHS.

 

[KenL]

Selective whs entry doesn't sound right.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Selective whs entry doesn't sound right.

That's correct. New rule specifies that if a score is 6 or better than standard scratch & the on team member has scored on more than 9 holes his score counts for handicap.

• "A pair must have scored at least 42 points or six under par.
• One of the pair must have scored on a minimum of nine holes.
• That player’s round will then be upscaled – with points for their unplayed holes added based on their playing partner’s score.
• That will be 0 points if there is no score, one point if their partner has scored a point on a hole, and 1.5 points added where their partner has scored two or more points on a hole.
• If the total score of that player is then 36 or more points, a score differential will be calculated and the score will be added to the player’s record. If it does not, it will not be acceptable for handicap purposes."

 

[KenL]

Still doesn't sound right. Surely all scores should be entered as they are in singles opens if at all.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Still doesn't sound right. Surely all scores should be entered as they are in singles opens if at all.

It's definitely messy but I guess that for 4bbb it would slow things down further if all 4 players finished out every hole. The new system is really there to stop the bandits, nothing more than that.

For individual opens, it's just much easier.

 

[rudebhoy]

That's correct. New rule specifies that if a score is 6 or better than standard scratch & the on team member has scored on more than 9 holes his score counts for handicap.

• "A pair must have scored at least 42 points or six under par.
• One of the pair must have scored on a minimum of nine holes.
• That player’s round will then be upscaled – with points for their unplayed holes added based on their playing partner’s score.
• That will be 0 points if there is no score, one point if their partner has scored a point on a hole, and 1.5 points added where their partner has scored two or more points on a hole.
• If the total score of that player is then 36 or more points, a score differential will be calculated and the score will be added to the player’s record. If it does not, it will not be acceptable for handicap purposes."

41 points was the winning score at last week’s 4bbb open.

So no one’s individual score will be added to WHS, even if both members of the winning team had got 40 points.

But if their team score was 42, and they had both scored 36, their individual scores would be added to WHS?

Very clunky indeed.

 

[Imurg]

It's definitely messy but I guess that for 4bbb it would slow things down further if all 4 players finished out every hole. The new system is really there to stop the bandits, nothing more than that.

For individual opens, it's just much easier.

Although I applaud the chasing of bandits, I feel the "cut" threshold is too high..
Why 42 points?
Why not anything better than handicap?
Why not all scores worse counting for handicap too?
I doesn't seem right that the system can pick and choose scores without taking all of them into account.
Why don't we pick and choose singles cards in the same way.?

 

[Green Man]

We had 44 points in a 4BBB last week. We both scored on 9 holes each. This didn't appear on mine or partners WHS record. I checked England Golf for the pairs that finished above us and even the winners with 48 points werent cut. No idea how this works. Seems very random.

 

[doublebogey7]

We had 44 points in a 4BBB last week. We both scored on 9 holes each. This didn't appear on mine or partners WHS record. I checked England Golf for the pairs that finished above us and even the winners with 48 points werent cut. No idea how this works. Seems very random.

I would suspect that your club did not tick the Acceptable for Handicapping box when setting the competition up.

 

[The Fader]

I believe the counting of 4bbb scores are simply to try and reduce and discourage banditry.

Yes, it's clunky but if it reduces even one handicap of a bandit - it's worthwhile. No extra work for the player. Just let the computer do it's thing!

It just can't work on widespread basis for individuals because of the nature of the format.

For example -
picking up when you can't beat your partner but could still score
being ultra positive when you have a "free" putt
playing a conservative tee shot if your partner makes a mess
going pin hunting \ taking on hero shots when your partner is safely on the green

 

[The Fader]

That's correct. New rule specifies that if a score is 6 or better than standard scratch & the on team member has scored on more than 9 holes his score counts for handicap.

• "A pair must have scored at least 42 points or six under par.
• One of the pair must have scored on a minimum of nine holes.
• That player’s round will then be upscaled – with points for their unplayed holes added based on their playing partner’s score.
• That will be 0 points if there is no score, one point if their partner has scored a point on a hole, and 1.5 points added where their partner has scored two or more points on a hole.
• If the total score of that player is then 36 or more points, a score differential will be calculated and the score will be added to the player’s record. If it does not, it will not be acceptable for handicap purposes."

Thanks for this!

Always wondered how it works.

 

[jim8flog]

Still doesn't sound right. Surely all scores should be entered as they are in singles opens if at all.

What they mean is when you enter the score on a PSI in a 4BBB comp you enter all of one players then all of the other players scores.

Only if the pairs score meets the criteria will it affect an individuals handicap record.

I applaud it because it goes someway to sorting out the open pairs bandits problem.

 

[wjemather]

That's correct. New rule specifies that if a score is 6 or better than standard scratch & the on team member has scored on more than 9 holes his score counts for handicap.

• "A pair must have scored at least 42 points or six under par.
• One of the pair must have scored on a minimum of nine holes.
• That player’s round will then be upscaled – with points for their unplayed holes added based on their playing partner’s score.
• That will be 0 points if there is no score, one point if their partner has scored a point on a hole, and 1.5 points added where their partner has scored two or more points on a hole.
• If the total score of that player is then 36 or more points, a score differential will be calculated and the score will be added to the player’s record. If it does not, it will not be acceptable for handicap purposes."

Just missing one key point:

• The players individual total score is calculated using their full Course Handicap

To achieve this, the difference between the Course Handicap and Playing Handicap is simply added to the scaled-up figure.

 

[wjemather]

We had 44 points in a 4BBB last week. We both scored on 9 holes each. This didn't appear on mine or partners WHS record. I checked England Golf for the pairs that finished above us and even the winners with 48 points werent cut. No idea how this works. Seems very random.

A few possible reasons why this could be:

1. The competition was not acceptable for handicapping, e.g. not played on a measured and rated course.
2. The competition was acceptable for handicapping but incorrectly setup in the software.
3. No individual total score reached the 36 point trigger.
4. The competition software being used is not yet able to send 4BBB scores to WHS (e.g. Golf Genius).
5. The competition was run by a non-approved organisation (so no automatic posting of scores to WHS).

 

[D-S]

It doesn’t necessarily mean that just bandits get cut.
We have seen a couple of cases locally when players with real, actual scores of 32 and 33 points, whose scores when scaled up reached the 36 point threshold, as the holes they scored badly on their partner did well on, so they were given 1.5 points instead of 0.

 

[Green Man]

A few possible reasons why this could be:

1. The competition was not acceptable for handicapping, e.g. not played on a measured and rated course.
2. The competition was acceptable for handicapping but incorrectly setup in the software.
3. No individual total score reached the 36 point trigger.
4. The competition software being used is not yet able to send 4BBB scores to WHS (e.g. Golf Genius).
5. The competition was run by a non-approved organisation (so no automatic posting of scores to WHS).

I think it will have been No.2. We use HDID and a 4BBB competition earlier in the year resulted in cuts.

As doublebigey7 said I suspect the club did not tick the Acceptable for Handicapping box when setting the competition up.

 

[Springveldt]

That's correct. New rule specifies that if a score is 6 or better than standard scratch & the on team member has scored on more than 9 holes his score counts for handicap.

• "A pair must have scored at least 42 points or six under par.
• One of the pair must have scored on a minimum of nine holes.
• That player’s round will then be upscaled – with points for their unplayed holes added based on their playing partner’s score.
• That will be 0 points if there is no score, one point if their partner has scored a point on a hole, and 1.5 points added where their partner has scored two or more points on a hole.
• If the total score of that player is then 36 or more points, a score differential will be calculated and the score will be added to the player’s record. If it does not, it will not be acceptable for handicap purposes."

So essentially the guy who scored on at least 9 holes needs to play a blinder or else he isn't getting cut as the maximum you can get for the other 9 holes is only 13.5 points. So you need to score at least 23 points for your 9 holes to get a cut.

We had 45 points in a 4BBB comp earlier this year, we both scored on 9 holes each and I "only" had 22 points for my 9 holes so I didn't get a cut. Maybe we screwed up as we didn't enter both our cards fully so each of us had 9 no scores on the computer as we were told before hand to just take the best net score for the hole. I know I still tapped in nearly all of my putts as the round was so slow but since my partner was in first we took his score, same for him on a lot of my scoring holes.

 

[wjemather]

So essentially the guy who scored on at least 9 holes needs to play a blinder or else he isn't getting cut as the maximum you can get for the other 9 holes is only 13.5 points. So you need to score at least 23 points for your 9 holes to get a cut.

We had 45 points in a 4BBB comp earlier this year, we both scored on 9 holes each and I "only" had 22 points for my 9 holes so I didn't get a cut. Maybe we screwed up as we didn't enter both our cards fully so each of us had 9 no scores on the computer as we were told before hand to just take the best net score for the hole. I know I still tapped in nearly all of my putts as the round was so slow but since my partner was in first we took his score, same for him on a lot of my scoring holes.

You did correctly - only the counting score should be recorded.

From GB&I guidance:
G5.10 "Handicap Committees will be justified in disregarding scores for handicapping purposes where scores for both players are recorded on a significant number of holes on a regular basis."