My Swing Speed Journey

[Springveldt]

Nice graph! I didn’t know something like that existed.

In my case, my driver is relatively fast, cruising at around 114 mph, while the red stick is relatively slow at just under 120 mph compared to the green one, which is above 130 mph. No wonder I was told I was hitting the driver quite fast relative to my stick speeds.

You are using the PRGR though, right? If so, you can probably subtract anywhere between 3-5mph off those stick speeds so your green speed is probably in line with 115 while your red is probably in line with 110.

I actually found the blog post again, I'm surprised they aren't hiding it behind the app paywall as they seem to be doing that with everything. It also says this is the average for the speed sticks, something I missed. So based on that, I'd guess my averages line up pretty well to the 105 driver speeds, green average is usually in the high 120's but blue and red are right around the 121 and 117 on average.

How Fast Should I Swing My SuperSpeed Clubs?!

We are often asked how fast you should swing each SuperSpeed Club in relation to how fast you swing your driver when doing overspeed golf training. In this blog post we will break down what to expect!

superspeedgolf.com

 

[Springveldt]

Thinking of buying the Superspeed C Club, no idea if it would do me any good but you can get it brand new off their eBay shop for £59 with a current discount eBay are giving me.

I've also been thinking about switching to The Stack, can get it from some American eBay shops for about £240 after import duties and VAT. Maybe changing it up might help but the thing that really puts me off The Stack is the yearly £100 subscription, absolutely ridiculous. I'm more interested in their putting and wedge games in the app that the speed training part if I'm being honest so the first year it would be decent value.

I've noticed over the last few rounds now that when I find the middle of the face I'm not that far behind my mate anymore, maybe only 5 yards or so now when it's normally 20 yards. Obviously he's still longer as he finds the middle way more than me, on the ones I catch it high or low heel I'll be 30 yards back but on the good ones I'm really not all that far behind, maybe he's getting slower.

The extra distance isn't helping my game at the minute though as I can't hit approaches close enough or hole any putts. Really frustrated with my game right now.

 

[Golf is fun]

Thinking of buying the Superspeed C Club, no idea if it would do me any good but you can get it brand new off their eBay shop for £59 with a current discount eBay are giving me.

I've also been thinking about switching to The Stack, can get it from some American eBay shops for about £240 after import duties and VAT. Maybe changing it up might help but the thing that really puts me off The Stack is the yearly £100 subscription, absolutely ridiculous. I'm more interested in their putting and wedge games in the app that the speed training part if I'm being honest so the first year it would be decent value.

I've noticed over the last few rounds now that when I find the middle of the face I'm not that far behind my mate anymore, maybe only 5 yards or so now when it's normally 20 yards. Obviously he's still longer as he finds the middle way more than me, on the ones I catch it high or low heel I'll be 30 yards back but on the good ones I'm really not all that far behind, maybe he's getting slower.

The extra distance isn't helping my game at the minute though as I can't hit approaches close enough or hole any putts. Really frustrated with my game right now.

If I had no kit I'd probably consider the stack over superspeed.

If you already have superspeed I think the stack will offer no or limited benefit. To me it's like when people obsess over gym programs, 90% of the results are just turning up and doing something, unless you're at the point where you cannot progress and need to pick up the marginal gains the return isn't there.

 

[Springveldt]

If I had no kit I'd probably consider the stack over superspeed.

If you already have superspeed I think the stack will offer no or limited benefit. To me it's like when people obsess over gym programs, 90% of the results are just turning up and doing something, unless you're at the point where you cannot progress and need to pick up the marginal gains the return isn't there.

True, but the gamification in the app would draw in my compulsive nature. Plus the putting and wedge games look like good practice tools, would maybe inspire me to try and get over the practice area once a week as well. Could even do the wedge game in the garden into my net.

I've got the original Rapsodo MLM and they have a combine game but once again it's locked behind their £100 a year subscription. I'd rather write my own app than pay them £100 for it. Hmm, maybe I should just do that.

 

[VVega]

If I had no kit I'd probably consider the stack over superspeed

Read this other day:

The main reason I switched from The Stack System to Rypstick is because of the length of the speed trainer. The Stack is around 42 inches, which makes no sense to me, as the goal of speed training isn’t to hit a 7-iron longer… it’s to hit a driver long.

Not sure I agree it matters that much and 7i is certainly not 42” However, out of interest, what’s the length of superspeed sticks?

The link for the quote:https://www.wickedsmartgolf.com/blog/the-stack-system-review

 

[Golf is fun]

Read this other day:


Not sure I agree it matters that much and 7i is certainly not 42” However, out of interest, what’s the length of superspeed sticks?

The link for the quote:https://www.wickedsmartgolf.com/blog/the-stack-system-review

Adult superspeed is 45" junior is 38"

Why does the author think the speed training device should be the same length as the driver? Rhetorical, because I looked at the article and they never say. If you take this train of thought to its logical conclusion, you also want the same swing weight, same shaft flex and bend profile, and if getting really silly same total weight, so may as well swing your driver. It's a common training fallacy that applies everywhere but golf in particular seems to really fall for it - people think the training moves have to look exactly like the golf swing, you also see it with people doing weird moves with weights and cables or on bosu balls. Training just needs to have carryover it doesn't need to be a complete replica of what is to be performed.

 

[The Squirrel]

Adult superspeed is 45" junior is 38"

Why does the author think the speed training device should be the same length as the driver? Rhetorical, because I looked at the article and they never say. If you take this train of thought to its logical conclusion, you also want the same swing weight, same shaft flex and bend profile, and if getting really silly same total weight, so may as well swing your driver. It's a common training fallacy that applies everywhere but golf in particular seems to really fall for it - people think the training moves have to look exactly like the golf swing, you also see it with people doing weird moves with weights and cables or on bosu balls. Training just needs to have carryover it doesn't need to be a complete replica of what is to be performed.

Agree. The only benefit I could think of was that you will subconsciously swing something as long as a driver like a driver, and subconsciously swing something as long as a 7 iron like a 7 iron. Therefore the longer stick might encourage you subconsciously to swing hard, and therefore test and break those neurological speed boundaries.

I have absolutely no evidence for any of this . Just hypothesising.

 

[VVega]

so may as well swing your driver

Exactly what I do

I see your point though and agree, the article statement is OTT, 42” is close enough, it’s not 37” 7i…

On another hand, if one wants just do over speed, why not swing a bare shaft? 70-80g should provide a sufficient stimulus or did someone have published “research” to claim that it has to have a certain weight/length/swingweight for the most optimal impact?

 

[Golf is fun]

Exactly what I do

I see your point though and agree, the article statement is OTT, 42” is close enough, it’s not 37” 7i…

On another hand, if one wants just do over speed, why not swing a bare shaft? 70-80g should provide a sufficient stimulus or did someone have published “research” to claim that it has to have a certain weight/length/swingweight for the most optimal impact?

I actually don't think swinging your driver is the worst thing to do.

If you want completely usable speed smashing balls as fast as you can is probably the best technique.
If you want the highest theoretical speed the swing sticks (or equivalent) are the way to go.
Then in between those options these a whole bunch of others, such as using your actual driver but not hitting balls and I've even rigged up a resistance band before to force me to move faster.

The theory of the weights of the speed sticks is to not be miles away from how you swing normally as this helps with carryover. You get similar concepts in other sports, when runners train with overspeed or overload they are normally within a certain window say +/-10%. Throwers also do similar with slightly heavier and lighter shot putt, discuss, hammer etc...
There is definitely research on this, when I have more time I might see if I can dig it out.

 

[VVega]

Anyone has seen this?

Speed Toad | Golf Swing Systems

Speed Toad available at great value prices. Click here for full product details and to buy now.

www.golfswingsystems.com

Seems to be a logical option - use your shaft with a lighter weight. Not sure £115 for a paperweight with a screw is a good value though

 

[Springveldt]

Anyone has seen this?

Speed Toad | Golf Swing Systems

Speed Toad available at great value prices. Click here for full product details and to buy now.

www.golfswingsystems.com

Seems to be a logical option - use your shaft with a lighter weight. Not sure £115 for a paperweight with a screw is a good value though

Seen it and thought no way I’m paying over £100 for that when you also have the hassle of removing your driver head each time. Might as well just swing your driver.

 

[Golf is fun]

Anyone has seen this?

Speed Toad | Golf Swing Systems

Speed Toad available at great value prices. Click here for full product details and to buy now.

www.golfswingsystems.com

Seems to be a logical option - use your shaft with a lighter weight. Not sure £115 for a paperweight with a screw is a good value though

Making the claim that using it with your own shaft will give you the feel of how your shaft reacts when you swing when it and then ignoring that removing around 30% of the weight of the clubhead might just change how the shaft reacts and feels is either a massive oversight, or conveniently ignored for marketing purposes. That's before the question of whether shaft feel would make a difference to speed training.

Not saying it's not a potentially useful tool for speed training, but the claim of getting the same feel as your real shaft and this being better for unspecified reasons feels like it's come from a marketing perspective, rather than a scientific perspective.

 

[Golf is fun]

I was fortunate enough today to get to try out a motion tracking system. I ended up experimenting around with grip strength (as in open/closed not pressure) and noticed with a strong grip my hand speed peaked much further from impact (no change in speed), which allowed me to get more clubhead speed.

Just thought this was an interesting observation.

 

[Springveldt]

I was fortunate enough today to get to try out a motion tracking system. I ended up experimenting around with grip strength (as in open/closed not pressure) and noticed with a strong grip my hand speed peaked much further from impact (no change in speed), which allowed me to get more clubhead speed.

Just thought this was an interesting observation.

Which one? I'm a complete sucker for these types of vids on YouTube, can watch them for hours.

Very interesting about the grip, I guess that's why Shawn Clement on YouTube has always advocated a strong grip.

 

[VVega]

I was fortunate enough today to get to try out a motion tracking system. I ended up experimenting around with grip strength (as in open/closed not pressure) and noticed with a strong grip my hand speed peaked much further from impact (no change in speed), which allowed me to get more clubhead speed.

Just thought this was an interesting observation.

Did the system give you your peak club tangential force in downswing? What was it if it did?

Any other numbers you found interesting?

 

[Golf is fun]

Which one? I'm a complete sucker for these types of vids on YouTube, can watch them for hours.

Very interesting about the grip, I guess that's why Shawn Clement on YouTube has always advocated a strong grip.

I'm lucky enough to have friends in high places, so I got to play around with a new toy that's not yet out there, but it's basically an equivalent of gears..

Did the system give you your peak club tangential force in downswing? What was it if it did?

Any other numbers you found interesting?

It didn't capture any force, just positions of points in 3d space, and anything that can be inferred from that, e.g linear speed, angular velocity etc..

The strong grip was most interesting, to me.
Hand speed and clubhead speed correlation were also interesting, when my hand speed peaked further from impact, I had swings where I had more clubhead speed from a lower peak hand speed. In some cases my peak hand speed could be 1/2mph slower, but the clubhead speed 15mph faster. There was a very strong correlation with distance hand speed peaked from impact and clubhead speed.

For me at least point of peak hand speed was the golden data point, I played around with length of swing, width of swing, tempo, absolute hand speed and nothing correlated as strongly to clubhead speed as peak hand speed distance from impact. Slowest swings were when hand speed peaked at impact, fastest where when it peaked around 30cm before. I wasn't able to get it to peak any sooner than that, so possibly a bit more to gain, but I'd imagine there is a point where start peaking it too soon and release too early.

 

[mrio]

The strong grip was most interesting, to me.
Hand speed and clubhead speed correlation were also interesting, when my hand speed peaked further from impact, I had swings where I had more clubhead speed from a lower peak hand speed. In some cases my peak hand speed could be 1/2mph slower, but the clubhead speed 15mph faster. There was a very strong correlation with distance hand speed peaked from impact and clubhead speed.

For me at least point of peak hand speed was the golden data point, I played around with length of swing, width of swing, tempo, absolute hand speed and nothing correlated as strongly to clubhead speed as peak hand speed distance from impact. Slowest swings were when hand speed peaked at impact, fastest where when it peaked around 30cm before. I wasn't able to get it to peak any sooner than that, so possibly a bit more to gain, but I'd imagine there is a point where start peaking it too soon and release too early.

I think the ideal parameters vary depending on each person’s swing characteristics. However, some things seem generally true, for example, a strong grip tends to favor speed. I believe that’s because you don’t have to consciously (or even subconsciously) work to square the clubface at impact. You can just keep applying force, and the face naturally stays more square. That’s how it felt when I first started using a strong grip: I didn’t have to think about releasing the club—I could just swing fast, and the ball would go.

As for the point where hand speed peaks, there’s definitely an optimal moment for everyone, but it always needs to occur before impact. The deceleration of the hands (more like a pulling motion than a braking one) helps the clubhead accelerate. What’s most fascinating is being able to actually feel this while swinging and make adjustments based on it. That’s something I had never considered before, and it’s amazing.

 

[VVega]

In some cases my peak hand speed could be 1/2mph slower, but the clubhead speed 15mph faster. There was a very strong correlation with distance hand speed peaked from impact and clubhead speed.

Were you able to control it with any intentions/feels?

 

[The Squirrel]

I'm lucky enough to have friends in high places, so I got to play around with a new toy that's not yet out there, but it's basically an equivalent of gears..

It didn't capture any force, just positions of points in 3d space, and anything that can be inferred from that, e.g linear speed, angular velocity etc..

The strong grip was most interesting, to me.
Hand speed and clubhead speed correlation were also interesting, when my hand speed peaked further from impact, I had swings where I had more clubhead speed from a lower peak hand speed. In some cases my peak hand speed could be 1/2mph slower, but the clubhead speed 15mph faster. There was a very strong correlation with distance hand speed peaked from impact and clubhead speed.

For me at least point of peak hand speed was the golden data point, I played around with length of swing, width of swing, tempo, absolute hand speed and nothing correlated as strongly to clubhead speed as peak hand speed distance from impact. Slowest swings were when hand speed peaked at impact, fastest where when it peaked around 30cm before. I wasn't able to get it to peak any sooner than that, so possibly a bit more to gain, but I'd imagine there is a point where start peaking it too soon and release too early.

I found that really interesting.

In practical terms does it mean we should all be doing the Tommy Fleetwood try-and-stop-the-hands-at-impact drill as part of speed training to try and increase that “whip crack” effect?

 

[Springveldt]

I'm lucky enough to have friends in high places, so I got to play around with a new toy that's not yet out there, but it's basically an equivalent of gears..

It didn't capture any force, just positions of points in 3d space, and anything that can be inferred from that, e.g linear speed, angular velocity etc..

The strong grip was most interesting, to me.
Hand speed and clubhead speed correlation were also interesting, when my hand speed peaked further from impact, I had swings where I had more clubhead speed from a lower peak hand speed. In some cases my peak hand speed could be 1/2mph slower, but the clubhead speed 15mph faster. There was a very strong correlation with distance hand speed peaked from impact and clubhead speed.

For me at least point of peak hand speed was the golden data point, I played around with length of swing, width of swing, tempo, absolute hand speed and nothing correlated as strongly to clubhead speed as peak hand speed distance from impact. Slowest swings were when hand speed peaked at impact, fastest where when it peaked around 30cm before. I wasn't able to get it to peak any sooner than that, so possibly a bit more to gain, but I'd imagine there is a point where start peaking it too soon and release too early.

That all lines up with what Athletic Motion Golf have been preaching for years, pro's hand speed peaks really early and they are essentially applying the brakes at impact causing the clubhead speed to really ramp up.