Should our Annual 'Past Captain's Cup' be a qualifier??

[2blue]

Each year it falls to the current Club Captain to organize & manage this event which is a Stableford off full h/cap & has always in the past been played as a none qualifier.
Some of the Past Captains are now at other Clubs & some (one) plays just casual golf outside of Club membership so no longer has an official h/cap so plays off something 'appropriate' ( they may get a Nearest the Pin but none in this category have ever won it)
As I understand it in the past under Congu it was considered too much fuss to put it through the PSI as visiting members would then have had to be put in as visitors etc
Rather it be just played as a 'Social Round' despite it having a place on the Clubs Events Program & being designated 'Past Captain's Cup'.

I'm feeling rather uncomfortable about it as I understand it, now, under WHS, events such as this ought to be considered as 'pre-registered rounds' for H/cap purposes. I personally think, 'Why wouldn't you?'
Also there are 2 or 3 of men from our Club who could easily come in with 44pts or so & when word gets out I could easily, as current Captain, be under question by other members as to why I was complicit in it being Non-Q.
This year there are 16 men & 8 lady Past Captains attending.

I guess if some just want to play a 'social round' or don't feel they are competitive enough to win, they could simply take "gimmies" & remove themselves from it being Q.
Any other suggestions etc would be welcomed.

 

[wjemather]

First a technical point - you cannot designate a comp as a non-qualifier (even though this how the software handles it); if an organised comp meets the requirements of handicapping, WHS requires that rounds are considered pre-registered and as such, scores must be submitted. It is the players responsibility to submit their scores and the committees responsibility to facilitate this and follow up any unreturned scores.

However, there are several things that can be done to make scores unacceptable for handicapping. Some easy ones are: allow actions contrary to the rules of golf (e.g. gimmes, mulligans, advice, etc.), play an unacceptable format, or play from a set of tees that is not measured. Personally, the rules option feels rather dishonest and could affect scoring, so if I had to choose it would probably be one of the others (although I don't really understand the desire to avoid putting scores in, so keeping it as a "qualifier" would be first choice).

Note: individuals cannot simply opt out of their handicapping responsibility by unilaterally taking gimmes, etc.

 

[2blue]

First a technical point - you cannot designate a comp as a non-qualifier (even though this how the software handles it); if an organised comp meets the requirements of handicapping, WHS requires that rounds are considered pre-registered and as such, scores must be submitted. It is the players responsibility to submit their scores and the committees responsibility to facilitate this and follow up any unreturned scores.

However, there are several things that can be done to make scores unacceptable for handicapping. Some easy ones are: allow actions contrary to the rules of golf (e.g. gimmes, mulligans, advice, etc.), play an unacceptable format, or play from a set of tees that is not measured. Personally, the rules option feels rather dishonest and could affect scoring, so if I had to choose it would probably be one of the others (although I don't really understand the desire to avoid putting scores in, so keeping it as a "qualifier" would be first choice).

Note: individuals cannot simply opt out of their handicapping responsibility by unilaterally taking gimmes, etc.

Yes, I agree that is very much against the 'spirit' if not even the Rules themselves. However, I would not feel complicit as its their action. Yes, "Why would a Past-Captain want to do such a thing?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Absolutely the round should be counting, nothing more to add really

 

[rulefan]

Absolutely the round should be counting, nothing more to add really

 

[2blue]

To say it didn't go down well is a bit of an understatement. However, progress, rather reluctantly, is being made.
This then brings me to another query.........
If someone at your Club organizes, for members & maybe a few from other Clubs, an "Away Day" or "Sunday Driver" or similar...... are players, in an individual format, expected to return their scores? Also do they do so?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

To say it didn't go down well is a bit of an understatement. However, progress, rather reluctantly, is being made.
This then brings me to another query.........
If someone at your Club organizes, for members & maybe a few from other Clubs, an "Away Day" or "Sunday Driver" or similar...... are players, in an individual format, expected to return their scores? Also do they do so?

Under WHS yes they are, it's an acceptable score, and that puts the onus on the player to submit it as per the bit I highlighted in yellow in my post above

Also do they do so?

I assume you mean how do they do so? Via the App, as a GP score.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Whatever happened to fun golf?

 

[rulefan]

Whatever happened to fun golf?

Don't organise it as individual strokeplay.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Whatever happened to fun golf?

You don't have to play comps, you don't have to have a handicap, most golfers don't.

 

[wjemather]

Whatever happened to fun golf?

Why should golf not be fun just because the score counts for handicapping? This idea makes no sense to me. To my mind, it can only be because people are overly bothered about their handicap and/or take it way too seriously when they have a scorecard in their hand. Why not just play golf (comp, GP, or otherwise), enjoy it, and let the score take care of itself.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why should golf not be fun just because the score counts for handicapping? This idea makes no sense to me. To my mind, it can only be because people are overly bothered about their handicap and/or take it way too seriously when they have a scorecard in their hand. Why not just play golf (comp, GP, or otherwise), enjoy it, and let the score take care of itself.

Because many people believe that when they have a scorecard in their hand it adds pressure onto themselves and it loses a little bit of the enjoyment and fun factor

Let’s all remember that not everyone is wired the same

I certainly wouldn’t expect away social days for people to put their scorecards in if they didn’t want too

 

[wjemather]

Because many people believe that when they have a scorecard in their hand it adds pressure onto themselves and it loses a little bit of the enjoyment and fun factor

Let’s all remember that not everyone is wired the same

I certainly wouldn’t expect away social days for people to put their scorecards in if they didn’t want too

Golfers need to develop a more healthy relationship with their handicap. At some point CONGU may/will likely adopt 'all scores count' as mandatory, so it's probably best to get used to the idea of putting these scores in now.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Golfers need to develop a more healthy relationship with their handicap. At some point CONGU may/will likely adopt 'all scores count' as mandatory, so it's probably best to get used to the idea of putting these scores in now.

Golfers need to enjoy their hobby at the end of the day first and foremost- enjoyment is the key not handicaps

Congu will never adopt a “all scores count” mantra as it misses the whole point of Amatuer club golf

The option is there for people who want to enter their scores in social or society rounds - if people don’t want to do that and keep them seperate from comp rounds then that’s all good

What next - scores entered of trips away

 

[Bdill93]

Golfers need to enjoy their hobby at the end of the day first and foremost- enjoyment is the key not handicaps

Congu will never adopt a “all scores count” mantra as it misses the whole point of Amatuer club golf

The option is there for people who want to enter their scores in social or society rounds - if people don’t want to do that and keep them seperate from comp rounds then that’s all good

What next - scores entered of trips away

Banning 1 balls because you cant submit them for handicap purposes!

 

[Pokitren]

Each year it falls to the current Club Captain to organize & manage this event which is a Stableford off full h/cap & has always in the past been played as a none qualifier.
Some of the Past Captains are now at other Clubs & some (one) plays just casual golf outside of Club membership so no longer has an official h/cap so plays off something 'appropriate' ( they may get a Nearest the Pin but none in this category have ever won it)
As I understand it in the past under Congu it was considered too much fuss to put it through the PSI as visiting members would then have had to be put in as visitors etc
Rather it be just played as a 'Social Round' despite it having a place on the Clubs Events Program & being designated 'Past Captain's Cup'.

I'm feeling rather uncomfortable about it as I understand it, now, under WHS, events such as this ought to be considered as 'pre-registered rounds' for H/cap purposes. I personally think, 'Why wouldn't you?'
Also there are 2 or 3 of men from our Club who could easily come in with 44pts or so & when word gets out I could easily, as current Captain, be under question by other members as to why I was complicit in it being Non-Q.
This year there are 16 men & 8 lady Past Captains attending.

I guess if some just want to play a 'social round' or don't feel they are competitive enough to win, they could simply take "gimmies" & remove themselves from it being Q.
Any other suggestions etc would be welcomed to betpokies.

Did I understand correctly that this is an optional competition and can not participate in it? And refusal to participate will not affect the rating? Forgive me if I am a beginner for asking silly questions. I'm just curious.

 

[wjemather]

Golfers need to enjoy their hobby at the end of the day first and foremost- enjoyment is the key not handicaps

Congu will never adopt a “all scores count” mantra as it misses the whole point of Amatuer club golf

The option is there for people who want to enter their scores in social or society rounds - if people don’t want to do that and keep them seperate from comp rounds then that’s all good

What next - scores entered of trips away

Unlike UHS, WHS is not a competition handicap system. It was conceived such that all (acceptable) scores are included; to say that will never happen here (when it already happens elsewhere in the world) seems ill-considered.

And as you must know by now, scores from organised comps (home or away) must already be submitted.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Golfers need to enjoy their hobby at the end of the day first and foremost- enjoyment is the key not handicaps

Congu will never adopt a “all scores count” mantra as it misses the whole point of Amatuer club golf

The option is there for people who want to enter their scores in social or society rounds - if people don’t want to do that and keep them seperate from comp rounds then that’s all good

What next - scores entered of trips away

I don’t necessarily mind entering away trips Phil, I’ve actually got a couple in my counting 8; it might be viewed as a more realistic reflection of ability when you are coping with different conditions.

What I do wonder is why we should be putting in the Tuesday night 9 holes score for the curry club; it’s not competitive golf, it’s a pure social so why should it change to something it isn’t.

 

[wjemather]

What I do wonder is why we should be putting in the Tuesday night 9 holes score for the curry club; it’s not competitive golf, it’s a pure social so why should it change to something it isn’t.

From a different perspective, let me ask: Why shouldn't such scores be submitted? It's a question I've asked of those who have complained at our place, and the replies can be summarised as follows: it never used to count, 9 holes is not a full round, why should it count, I don't want it to count, I don't have time to warm up before playing (but turning up with a hangover 10 mins before teeing off for weekend comps isn't a problem), etc.

Social and competitive are not mutually exclusive, and if you're all putting a couple of quid in the pot, then it is obviously competitive.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Unlike UHS, WHS is not a competition handicap system. It was conceived such that all (acceptable) scores are included; to say that will never happen here (when it already happens elsewhere in the world) seems ill-considered.

And as you must know by now, scores from organised comps (home or away) must already be submitted.

“organised comps” is the key phrase there

There is no “must” to put in cards from days away , societies , social knocks , swindles etc - the exact sort of “fun” rounds of golf that people want to play to enjoy their hobby