Shots in a mixed match on a hole with different pars

[Pathetic Shark]

Sorry if this has ever been posted before but I cannot find a definitive answer anywhere.

Match this weekend - two men v two women in fourball betterball. Ignoring handicap shots for the point of this question.

8th hole is a 290-yard par-4 for the men, 160-yard par-3 for the ladies. If the men record a 4 and the ladies a 3, is this a half (both teams made par) or a win for the ladies (lowest gross score)?

 

[rosecott]

I don't think the par has any relevance. Both pairs have a hole to play and the only consideration for the outcome is the gross score with any strokes given or received taken into account.

 

[IanG]

You can't ignore handicaps in this scenario. Even if all the players were off scratch handicaps the strokes given needs to be adjusted by the difference in the ladies and gents SSS.

i.e. if the ladies SSS is 74 and the gents is 72, the scratch handicap ladies would receive 2 strokes from the gents. If the stroke indices for gents and ladies are different it needs to be agreed beforehand (on in the conditions of the comp) which SI to use.

 

[Colin L]

You can't ignore handicaps in this scenario. Even if all the players were off scratch handicaps the strokes given needs to be adjusted by the difference in the ladies and gents SSS.

i.e. if the ladies SSS is 74 and the gents is 72, the scratch handicap ladies would receive 2 strokes from the gents. If the stroke indices for gents and ladies are different it needs to be agreed beforehand (on in the conditions of the comp) which SI to use.

Yes indeed, and make the handicap adjustment before calculating the 90% of the differences between the higher handicaps and the back marker's.

As said, par has no relevance in match play.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

I was only talking about ignoring handicap shots to make the question easier. Thanks for the replies though!

 

[rulefan]

Lowest score counts.
If handicap event, lowest net. If non handicap event, lowest (gross) score.

 

[jim8flog]

AS per Ian G

The main thing is that the organisers have to agree which card they are going to use, men's or ladies. The SIs and pars are then the same for each team.

 

[rulefan]

Use this

https://www.englandgolf.org/article/mixed-golf/

 

[rulefan]

AS per Ian G

The main thing is that the organisers have to agree which card they are going to use, men's or ladies. The SIs and pars are then the same for each team.

Are you suggesting the ladies play 450 yard holes as par 4s?

 

[jim8flog]

Are you suggesting the ladies play 450 yard holes as par 4s?

Given the format being suggested it is the SIs that are important (for allocation of strokes holes). I would still expect the ladies to play from their own tees.
Where I play I always recommend the use of the ladies cards as the par between the two is only affected on one hole.

 

[jim8flog]

Quoting CONGU guidelines


Page | 3

Which Stroke Index should we use?

For match play it is recommended that all players play using a single par and SI.
CONGU recommend that this should be the forward set (shortest) of tees.

 

[rulefan]

Given the format being suggested it is the SIs that are important (for allocation of strokes holes). I would still expect the ladies to play from their own tees.
Where I play I always recommend the use of the ladies cards as the par between the two is only affected on one hole.

Yes, we use the ladies card and SIs and the ladies use their tees. But one hole is a par 5 for the ladies and par 4 for the men. Both use their own par for the stableford points.
I have never got involved in arranging these games, it's usually the ladies section I gather, so am not sure what is the coreect procedure. I just do as I am told.

 

[duncan mackie]

Yes, we use the ladies card and SIs and the ladies use their tees. But one hole is a par 5 for the ladies and par 4 for the men. Both use their own par for the stableford points.
I have never got involved in arranging these games, it's usually the ladies section I gather, so am not sure what is the coreect procedure. I just do as I am told.

You are confusing me now!

If it's a match, as the question asked here, par is irrelevant (as you have already posted, but the SI of the hole isn't (so as you seem to agree with Jim a single set of SI is agreed and used, with the ladies being a preference).
If you are bringing stableford points into it it's a whole different ball game, and you should be using the ladies card for ladies and the men's card for men (both par and SI) with a further handicap adjustment for any difference in par (which is arithmetically the same as using either of the cards for the par figures but generally more eloquent and acceptable to all parties)

 

[jim8flog]

?

 

[louise_a]

I have played a quite a few mixed knockouts, in the Titiliest matchplay for example it says in the rules that if men get shot they take them off the mens SI and women off the womens

 

[rulefan]

I have played a quite a few mixed knockouts, in the Titiliest matchplay for example it says in the rules that if men get shot they take them off the mens SI and women off the womens

Ye, that's what I thought.