Shamima Begum - In or Out

PNWokingham

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The law as applied by the Supreme Court is straightforward - she is not a British citizen and so has no right of access to the U.K. The removal of citizenship being at the heart of the matter was political. Decision may well have been legal - but it was political. But hey. Good to hear the views of the usual suspects and so I’m out on this.

we have separation of powere in the UK, unlike in Syria and ISIS. The decision was a legal one and we do not need to go into politics to talk about it
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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And that removal was done by application of the law.

And why finish with an insult Hugh? What purpose does that serve other than to make a good debate sour.
Perhaps the debate should be about whether a Home Secretary should be able to remove citizenship from a British citizen...especially when that act blocks British justice from acting on behalf of the state and the individual. The answer to the question posted can only be enacted by a politician.
 

Hobbit

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Perhaps the debate should be about whether a Home Secretary should be able to remove citizenship from a British citizen...especially when that act blocks British justice from acting on behalf of the state and the individual. The answer to the question posted can only be enacted by a politician.

And now who's making it a political discussion? For God's sake Hugh, keep the politics off the forum. We're having a perfectly good debate without your usual rubbish.
 

GuyInLyon

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“Made a mistake”
Not every 15 year old joins ISIS!!!

Yes, a mistake.

A 15 year old cannot vote, cannot drink alcohol, cannot sign a legal contract cannot get a full drivers license.

Will you strip the citizenship of every 15 year old that kills someone? Deals drugs? Fails to abide by Covid restrictions?

When does it end?
 

Imurg

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Yes, a mistake.

A 15 year old cannot vote, cannot drink alcohol, cannot sign a legal contract cannot get a full drivers license.

Will you strip the citizenship of every 15 year old that kills someone? Deals drugs? Fails to abide by Covid restrictions?

When does it end?
Probably with joining an outfit who's sole purpose is to destroy ways of life that don't match theirs......and not having any regrets.
 

USER1999

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Yes, a mistake.

A 15 year old cannot vote, cannot drink alcohol, cannot sign a legal contract cannot get a full drivers license.

Will you strip the citizenship of every 15 year old that kills someone? Deals drugs? Fails to abide by Covid restrictions?

When does it end?

If she still believes that it is right to behead people who subscribe to a different religion, or even a different sect of her own religion, that is hardly a 'mistake'.
 

DanFST

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I'll leave my 2C, The woman is one of the few I would happily punch in the face.

- We shouldn't leave anyone Stateless. We are better than that.
- Appeals etc shouldn't be done by us. They should be done by the UN. (It leaves too much variation between countries - Spain not recognising Kosovo etc.)
- I hope the people that are happy she has been denied appeal, have no opinion on Anne Sarcoolas. US decided that's what they wanted to do too.


It will never happen, as there is too much politicking. But a set of laws that apply to all would stop BS decisions.

EDIT: She's not a national security threat. She's a stupid girl, that if allowed back will hopefully seldom see sunlight.
 

chrisd

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Yes, a mistake.

A 15 year old cannot vote, cannot drink alcohol, cannot sign a legal contract cannot get a full drivers license.

Will you strip the citizenship of every 15 year old that kills someone? Deals drugs? Fails to abide by Covid restrictions?

When does it end?

I cant answer "where does it end" but certainly if it only starts at what she chose to do then that'll do for me to not allow her back ever again.
 

Blue in Munich

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The law as applied by the Supreme Court is straightforward - she is not a British citizen and so has no right of access to the U.K. The removal of citizenship being at the heart of the matter was political. Decision may well have been legal - but it was political. But hey. Good to hear the views of the usual suspects and so I’m out on this.

Says the usual suspect. :rolleyes:
 
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Your version only applies if the parent holds Bangladeshi citizenship by acquisition, not by birth right. Your version is Jus Soli, not Jus Sanguinis.

It’s a note in the Jus Sanguinis section ?‍♂️

Jus sanguinis

According to the Citizenship Act 1951, one method of acquiring Bangladeshi nationality is via jus sanguinis (Citizenship by right of blood). This means one may acquire citizenship regardless of whether they were born on Bangladeshi sovereign territory or not. Bangladeshi citizenship is provided primarily jus sanguinis, or through bloodline, irrespective of the place or the legitimacy of the birth. Therefore, any child born to a Bangladeshi woman illegitimately outside Bangladeshi soil would still be a Bangladeshi citizen, whereas a child born to two non-nationals in Bangladesh would not. This method is restricted if the child's parents also acquired their nationality through naturalisation or by descent.

Note, however that the Act states that for this to be the case, if the parent from whom the citizenship is to be inherited obtained their Bangladeshi citizenship by descent (rather than birth, for example) then the birth must be registered at the nearest Bangladeshi Embassy or Mission.

Jus soli

Citizenship is acquired jus soli (Citizenship by right of birth within the territory), or at birth, when the identity or nationality of the parents is unknown.[2] In this regard, the child is assumed to be born to Bangladeshi nationals, and hence, given citizenship upon birth. However, this does not apply to the children of enemy aliens born in Bangladesh and it also does not apply to people residing illegally in Bangladesh or refugees in Bangladesh.[4] Enemy aliens are people who do not recognize or refuse to recognize the sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence of the People's Republic of Bangladesh. Enemy aliens are also people whose country of citizenship is, or was, at war with Bangladesh since the declaration of independence in March 1971 by the father of the nation Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.[4] Jus soli citizenship is conferred upon some Urdu-speaking people of Bangladesh since May 2008 by a High Court verdict”


I suspect it’s a minefield of laws and rules but unfortunately I can see it coming back to haunt the Home Office - a human rights group and lawyer are going to make a mint from it all
 

toyboy54

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Probably because the death penalty is disgusting and akin to the types of beliefs that saw her go abroad in the first place.
Oh yeah,the death penalty that is so disgusting that ISIS threw alleged homosexuals off rooftops and sawed prisoners heads off(and let's not mention the mass rape of Yazidi women and girls in case the righteous are upset about how misjudged ISIS and followers are)
Oh yeah,that must have been like moving to a real moral utopia?
Jimbo
 

Kellfire

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Oh yeah,the death penalty that is so disgusting that ISIS threw alleged homosexuals off rooftops and sawed prisoners heads off(and let's not mention the mass rape of Yazidi women and girls in case the righteous are upset about how misjudged ISIS and followers are)
Oh yeah,that must have been like moving to a real moral utopia?
Jimbo
I hate how these people torture and kill people. It’s disgusting. I know what’ll help. We’ll kill people.

Cognitive dissonance.
 

Hobbit

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It’s a note in the Jus Sanguinis section ?‍♂️

Jus sanguinis

According to the Citizenship Act 1951, one method of acquiring Bangladeshi nationality is via jus sanguinis (Citizenship by right of blood). This means one may acquire citizenship regardless of whether they were born on Bangladeshi sovereign territory or not. Bangladeshi citizenship is provided primarily jus sanguinis, or through bloodline, irrespective of the place or the legitimacy of the birth. Therefore, any child born to a Bangladeshi woman illegitimately outside Bangladeshi soil would still be a Bangladeshi citizen, whereas a child born to two non-nationals in Bangladesh would not. This method is restricted if the child's parents also acquired their nationality through naturalisation or by descent.

Note, however that the Act states that for this to be the case, if the parent from whom the citizenship is to be inherited obtained their Bangladeshi citizenship by descent (rather than birth, for example) then the birth must be registered at the nearest Bangladeshi Embassy or Mission.

Jus soli

Citizenship is acquired jus soli (Citizenship by right of birth within the territory), or at birth, when the identity or nationality of the parents is unknown.[2] In this regard, the child is assumed to be born to Bangladeshi nationals, and hence, given citizenship upon birth. However, this does not apply to the children of enemy aliens born in Bangladesh and it also does not apply to people residing illegally in Bangladesh or refugees in Bangladesh.[4] Enemy aliens are people who do not recognize or refuse to recognize the sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence of the People's Republic of Bangladesh. Enemy aliens are also people whose country of citizenship is, or was, at war with Bangladesh since the declaration of independence in March 1971 by the father of the nation Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.[4] Jus soli citizenship is conferred upon some Urdu-speaking people of Bangladesh since May 2008 by a High Court verdict”


I suspect it’s a minefield of laws and rules but unfortunately I can see it coming back to haunt the Home Office - a human rights group and lawyer are going to make a mint from it all

Begum's parents obtained their citizenship by birth, not descent. Therefore, Begum's parent's didn't have to register her birth at the nearest embassy or mission. However, Begum's children would have to be registered as she would have inherited by descent.
 
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