Paperboy
Mini Cam
She had her citizenship revoked. She is also a Bangladeshi citizen as well from what I remember.
Shamima Begum - In or Out
- Thread starter PNWokingham
- Start date
She had her citizenship revoked. She is also a Bangladeshi citizen as well from what I remember.
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
So a 15 year old kid, runs away with a couple of chums, they have this idealistic notion of joining a cause, they must have been groomed in some way.
Once there, it is pretty difficult to change your mind and come home, they are “married” off to ISIS fighters, and over the next 5 years the 2 chums are killed , she had 3 kids that all die as well as her “husband”.
She ends up in a camp and now has the chance to escape, but the people back home think she is some sort of monster and won’t allow her back.
A different narrative, and also playing devils advocate a bit.
Apart from “joining” ISIS which is obviously a terrorist organisation, what crime has she committed, no evidence she ever touched a weapon or hurt anyone, she was a breeding machine for future fighters and probably helped in the kitchens or laundry with the other women.
Part of me doesn’t want her back, quite a big part actually, but is she being demonised for making a very bad irreversible decision when still a kid?
Always 2 sides to a story, I’d like to find out how she was groomed, what made then want to go, what her community/ parents missed,
I don’t profess to know the answer, just giving an alternative point of view
Once there, it is pretty difficult to change your mind and come home, they are “married” off to ISIS fighters, and over the next 5 years the 2 chums are killed , she had 3 kids that all die as well as her “husband”.
She ends up in a camp and now has the chance to escape, but the people back home think she is some sort of monster and won’t allow her back.
A different narrative, and also playing devils advocate a bit.
Apart from “joining” ISIS which is obviously a terrorist organisation, what crime has she committed, no evidence she ever touched a weapon or hurt anyone, she was a breeding machine for future fighters and probably helped in the kitchens or laundry with the other women.
Part of me doesn’t want her back, quite a big part actually, but is she being demonised for making a very bad irreversible decision when still a kid?
Always 2 sides to a story, I’d like to find out how she was groomed, what made then want to go, what her community/ parents missed,
I don’t profess to know the answer, just giving an alternative point of view
chrisd
Major Champion
From what I remember, interviews she gave at the time she was initially seeking to return showed no remorse for her actions , in fact quite the opposite . If she has to be the one example that deters others from acting as she did the so be it in my opinion.
Pathetic Shark
Tour Rookie
Let her back in and you open the door for all kinds of other lowlifes. Sorry but she chose to go - she does not come back EVER. It is as much the precedent as the original action.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
The last reports stated there were over 400 ISIS fighters now living back in the UK, some in prison, some walking the streets.
I agree she shouldn’t be allowed back, but then i don’t think any of them should of been allowed back in.
I also think she is already costing us millions in legal fees and one day will turn up in the UK and we’ll have the deportation to sort out.
I agree she shouldn’t be allowed back, but then i don’t think any of them should of been allowed back in.
I also think she is already costing us millions in legal fees and one day will turn up in the UK and we’ll have the deportation to sort out.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
15 year old girl is groomed and radicalised
Runs off with mates
Joins a cause she now believes is worthy
Watches her friends and her own children be killed
Reality hits her , finds a way to escape so that she can go home to her country of birth but finds out they are stripped her of that right because of the acts she did as a 15 year old - she has committed no terrorist acts etc
The UK have used her as a poster girl on what happens if you run off to join that cause
But the young girl has not shown any sort of remorse in any interview and has asked for sympathy - she appears unwilling to take any responsibility for her actions
It’s very hard and no right answer
They know that if she does find a way back into the UK there is nothing they can do then
But I can see her back in the UK at some point with her citizenship reinstated- the human rights and leaving her stateless will come to the fore.
Runs off with mates
Joins a cause she now believes is worthy
Watches her friends and her own children be killed
Reality hits her , finds a way to escape so that she can go home to her country of birth but finds out they are stripped her of that right because of the acts she did as a 15 year old - she has committed no terrorist acts etc
The UK have used her as a poster girl on what happens if you run off to join that cause
But the young girl has not shown any sort of remorse in any interview and has asked for sympathy - she appears unwilling to take any responsibility for her actions
It’s very hard and no right answer
They know that if she does find a way back into the UK there is nothing they can do then
But I can see her back in the UK at some point with her citizenship reinstated- the human rights and leaving her stateless will come to the fore.
If you listen to police and other security people they will tell you how difficult it is to put together a case against any ISIS supporter / fighter who was out in the field. Where are the witnesses, what crimes did she commit? Once the legal bods get hold of it then the fact that we know what she and others have done will be outweighed by what we can prove she has done.
So, she comes back, maybe does a few years in prison, is released and then has a team of security personnel monitoring her constantly at enormous expense ?. No thanks.
It's a bad situation but the best solution is to kick the can down the road and keep these people out. Once back the only ones celebrating are the lawyers, bless em.
So, she comes back, maybe does a few years in prison, is released and then has a team of security personnel monitoring her constantly at enormous expense ?. No thanks.
It's a bad situation but the best solution is to kick the can down the road and keep these people out. Once back the only ones celebrating are the lawyers, bless em.
rudebhoy
Q-School Graduate
You have to ask why the UK has quietly facilitated the return of hundreds of ISIS fighters, many of whom (maybe the majority of them) will be actual killers, while successive Home Secretaries have made a big show of removing her citizenship and stopping her returning?
If she had not been found by a journalist and then was naive / stupid enough to give an interview where she refused to apologise for her actions, she would have been back in the country and we would never have heard of her.
Just another example of gesture politics and playing to the gallery.
At the time her British citizenship was revoked she was under 21. As a minor (in Bangladeshi law) born to Bangladeshi parents she is/was automatically a Bangladeshi citizen until she reached the age of 21 and chooses to confirm or refuse her Bangladeshi citizenship.
She wasn't stateless when her British citizenship was revoked, she was by birth right Bangladeshi. I can understand Bangladesh saying they don't want her but by Bangladeshi law she was Bangladeshi. So which country is making her stateless, the UK or Bangladesh?
It would appear there a several options.
1) Deny her citizenship. Seeing her in western garb on the news the other night only looks to confirm she's a dead (wo)man walking. She's not safe in the camp anyway because of her desire to return to the UK, and dressing in western garb won't do her any favours with the Mullahs. But is she deliberately dressing in western garb to mitigate how she appears to the majority of UK citizens?
2) Open the door and let her back in to get on with her life.
3) Open the door and let her in to prosecute her for being a member of a banned organisation.
4) Open the door and use her as a poster girl going round the schools telling young girls NOT to go off chasing pipe dreams. Highlighting the dangers of grooming etc.
For me, she was 15 when she had been groomed enough to go off and join ISIS. Chances are she was younger than 15 when the grooming started. I choose option 4. Bring her back under a very short leash, on licence, and use her shamelessly to try and ensure other girls aren't radicalised. And for the licence to include the term of treason. She signs it where she is now with the understanding that its a life term if she doesn't honour it. Yes it will cost the country a fair bit of money but what will it save in the long run if it protects other young lives?
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Possibly, there is an element of that, but the 400 got back to the UK, she hasn’t and currently, I believe, there are males in these camps who have also had their British citizenship removed and we don’t see the headlines over those.
Dando
Q-School Graduate
I said on Twitter that the only place she should be is dangling on the end of a rope and some bed wetters found that offensive
D
Deleted member 25172
Guest
This is not the poster girl I’d propose to convince others that chasing jihad is a bad choice.
I believe If ISIS had control of Raqqa today she’d still be there. They lost, and now she’s looking for an out, knowing that the western world tend to fall over itself in trying to accommodate for those who wish us dead - cause otherwise “we would be just as bad as them”. ???
2019:
On her first glance of seeing a severed head in a bin, she added: "It didn't faze me at all."
"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam. I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance."
Despite the oppression and violence witnessed, Begum said she didn't regret leaving.
"I’m not the same silly little 15-year-old schoolgirl who ran away from Bethnal Green four years ago," she said. "And I don't regret coming here."
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-british-schoolgirl-who-ran-away-to-join-isis
I believe If ISIS had control of Raqqa today she’d still be there. They lost, and now she’s looking for an out, knowing that the western world tend to fall over itself in trying to accommodate for those who wish us dead - cause otherwise “we would be just as bad as them”. ???
2019:
On her first glance of seeing a severed head in a bin, she added: "It didn't faze me at all."
"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam. I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance."
Despite the oppression and violence witnessed, Begum said she didn't regret leaving.
"I’m not the same silly little 15-year-old schoolgirl who ran away from Bethnal Green four years ago," she said. "And I don't regret coming here."
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-british-schoolgirl-who-ran-away-to-join-isis
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
No politician should have the power to remove British citizenship from an individual on any grounds.
The Supreme Court judgement is simply based on the U.K. having the right to refuse entry to anyone who is not a UK citizen - I guess that this is usually done on security grounds - and that is all that has been done.
Meanwhile we ‘accept’ the 15yr old running a new-nazi terror group from his grandmothers house. I wonder what the difference is...ah he just did it because he thought it was cool. That’s alright then..
https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/youngest-british-terrorist-sentenced-neo-nazi-manuals-stash
The Supreme Court judgement is simply based on the U.K. having the right to refuse entry to anyone who is not a UK citizen - I guess that this is usually done on security grounds - and that is all that has been done.
Meanwhile we ‘accept’ the 15yr old running a new-nazi terror group from his grandmothers house. I wonder what the difference is...ah he just did it because he thought it was cool. That’s alright then..
https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/youngest-british-terrorist-sentenced-neo-nazi-manuals-stash
Last edited:
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
From Wikipedia;
The Daily Telegraph reported that Begum was an "enforcer" in ISIL's "morality police", and tried to recruit other young women to join the jihadist group. She was allowed to carry a Kalashnikov rifle and earned a reputation as a strict enforcer of ISIL's laws, such as dress codes for women. An anti-ISIL activist told The Independent that there are separate allegations of "Begum [stitching] suicide bombers into explosive vests so they could not be removed without detonating".
On 13 February 2019, The Times' war correspondent Anthony Loyd found Begum at the al-Hawl refugee camp in Northern Syria, in what one newspaper described as "scoop of the decade". When interviewed, Begum revealed that she was nine months pregnant and hoped to return to the UK to raise her child, but did not regret her decision to join ISIL. She said she had been unfazed by seeing the head of a beheaded man as he was "an enemy of Islam", but believes that ISIL did not deserve victory because of their corruption and oppression.
Begum was interviewed by BBC correspondent Quentin Sommerville on 18 February. During the interview, Begum asked for forgiveness and claimed that she still supports "some British values". She said she was inspired to join ISIL by videos of fighters beheading hostages and also of "the good life" under the group. However, Sommerville noted that she continues to espouse the ISIL ideology and to try to justify its atrocities. When asked about the Manchester Arena bombing, she claimed it was wrong to kill innocent people, but that ISIL considered it justified as retaliation for the coalition bombing of ISIL-held areas. When questioned about rape, enslavement and murder of Yazidi women, she claimed, "Shia do the same in Iraq".
Like you Phil, there's a degree of conflict and those that turned her represent a greater danger, but she's been turned once and appears to show a lack of genuine remorse; why risk having her back to turn again?
Dando
Q-School Graduate
He should have the book thrown at him but he didn’t leave the country so there were no issues about letting him back in.
If begum is allowed to attend a hearing here you can bet she’ll claim asylum as soon as her feet touches UK soil and Cherie Blair will be representing her
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Thread should be closed by mods as this is a political matter.
Dando
Q-School Graduate
No it’s not
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...hamima_Begum&usg=AOvVaw3bBO6pIs_l11sT-eZUxggj
In what is an emotive topic, a little read about her may enlighten people re how we got to this situation.
In what is an emotive topic, a little read about her may enlighten people re how we got to this situation.
chrisd
Major Champion
I totally disagree. If an illegal immigrant is favoured with British citizenship and then commits a crime that warrants a prison term then the Home Secretary should immediately remove that citizenship and deport the person back to their country of origin.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
If it is a political thread then why are you commenting in it rather than reporting it to the mods...? (That's a rhetorical question, everyone knows why
)
