Scottish independence

[Deleted member 15344]

I have zero knowledge on all things soldiering, so I'll bow to your obvious superior inside track, and appreciate also the sensible reply.

Would a new Scottish military not also create opportunities for ambitious soldiers looking to make a career out of it?There is obviously limits in the current set up, and given the ongoing downsizing (I've witnessed myself in RAF High Wycombe) opportunities are becoming less and less.

I also realise that by its very nature, the military automatic response would be to vote No to a greater degree, but not all of them.

I think everyone accepts that initially things like Military might take a while to find its feat, but with less engagement in stuff like Iraq, less policing places like the falklands, its all workable.

What different career would a solider get in the Scottish Military ?

I suppose there is lovely outposts for them to work at - forget places like Cyprus , holland , Belgium and Ascension etc when they could be in Benbecula.

They would also have to repopulate all the Radar sites which are controlled remotely by sites in the UK. They are in some wonderful places in the middle of nowhere.

 

[SocketRocket]

Fortunately for any post yes Scotland, I'm pretty sure you'll not have a seat round the negotiation table, so I think those that do will be able to see the bigger picture.But answer me this-

If Scotland isn't allowed a proportion of the hardware/assets that the tax payers of Scotland have funded, would Scotland have to take on the same proportion of liabilities and debts accrued when we were in The UK?

no assets=no liabilities, yes or no?

Yes! We will give you a few Trident missiles and an Aircraft Carrier with no planes.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Do you think that there will be a "Scottish Navy , Army and Air Force " - not in a million years - can say that with 100% that will never ever happen.

How can you afford the build a military forms scratch - do you think the Scottish people in the current uk military will just switch across ?

They won't have a separate military - it's not affordable or workable.

Why would you have 9% of he current one ? They are the UK military which you are leaving and will just leave the Scottish bases and move to the English ones leaving you to form your own. That's just personnel - let's not forget the equipment which goes with it - billions upon billions worth of equipment - just one Typhoon is over 30 mil to buy let alone look after.

Currently the people employed in the current uk force are contracted to the UK force on long engagements.

There will still just be a UK military and Scotland would just pay for their services.

I spent 22 years in the military working alongside a number of jocks and the last place the majority wanted to be based at was Scotland.

They had the use of the assets when they were part of the UK - leave the UK they leave the assets along with the debt etc. They want independence then off you trot and set up on your own using your own money. I wonder how many people in Scotland would be willing the Government to be able to spend billions building the three services.

Let's not start getting personal shall we - I'm giving my view point on a unworkable or affordable Scottish military after seeing how the Military works for the last 22 years. Don't start dishing out the insults ok.

What we can do is revisits this in the years to come and you will find no change in the military right now. It's unworkable or affordable for a separate Scottish Military to work as a separate force. There will be a UK military which Scottish Battalions will be a part of.

Take it as an insult if you want, I reckon there's enough in there to back up my opinion you're ignorant to the possibilities of an independent Scotland, which is fine, alot of English folk are, look at that CH5 programme last week, I reckon that was a pretty decent reflection on the general opinion held by English folk.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Yes! We will give you a few Trident missiles.

Currently it's us giving rUK the tridents.Possession 9/10ths of law n'all that.

 

[SocketRocket]

Take it as an insult if you want, I reckon there's enough in there to back up my opinion you're ignorant to the possibilities of an independent Scotland, which is fine, alot of English folk are, look at that CH5 programme last week, I reckon that was a pretty decent reflection on the general opinion held by English folk.

Only English? What about the rest of the UK?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Take it as an insult if you want, I reckon there's enough in there to back up my opinion you're ignorant to the possibilities of an independent Scotland, which is fine, alot of English folk are, look at that CH5 programme last week, I reckon that was a pretty decent reflection on the general opinion held by English folk.

Sorry but I'm not ignorant to a working Scottish Independance - that wasn't what I was discussing and haven't discussed - I'm taking about a separate Scottish military and the unworkable aspect of that. Hence why I have been talking about the military aspect.

Currently I do know though that the polls suggest there will be a No vote - if that will happen that will be a royal kick in the nuts for some. The majority of Jocks I have worked with have been too blokes who don't want to be an independent country because they all ready have their own identity as people - my own experience is it's mainly the "anti English " who want an independent Scotland because they mainly don't want anything to do with England.

Maybe some English wished it had happened before our worst PM in modern history - Gordon Brown who sold the country down the river - took office.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Only English? What about therest of the UK?

fair point

Sorry but I'm not ignorant to a working Scottish Independance - that wasn't what I was discussing and haven't discussed - I'm taking about a separate Scottish military and the unworkable aspect of that. Hence why I have been talking about the military aspect.

Currently I do know though that the polls suggest there will be a No vote - if that will happen that will be a royal kick in the nuts for some. The majority of Jocks I have worked with have been too blokes who don't want to be an independent country because they all ready have their own identity as people - my own experience is it's mainly the "anti English " who want an independent Scotland because they mainly don't want anything to do with England.

Maybe some English wished it had happened before our worst PM in modern history - Gordon Brown who sold the country down the river - took office.

OK, point taken.all you've done however is say 'never in a million years' 'its not affordable or workable' 'using your own money' all of which is either opinion based on nothing concrete you've provided and ignorance to the fact that the £ is as much Scotlands as it is Englands...the UK central bank (or bank of england as its known) is precisely that...the UK central bank, so currently and forever more, part Scottish.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

fair point



OK, point taken.all you've done however is say 'never in a million years' 'its not affordable or workable' 'using your own money' all of which is either opinion based on nothing concrete you've provided and ignorance to the fact that the £ is as much Scotlands as it is Englands...the UK central bank (or bank of england as its known) is precisely that...the UK central bank, so currently and forever more, part Scottish.

It's based upon 22 years of experience working in the military. That's why I believe a Scottish Military is unworkable . I think the actual plan is just to have a Scottish battalion but nothing about an Air Force or Navy.

 

[ger147]

In the event of a Yes vote in Scotland, there would have to be some sort of split of the existing military kit, infrastructure, troops etc. or an agreement to continue with a UK military inc. Indy Scotland as there is absolutely 0% chance of the Westminster government letting Scotland swanny off with no debt, as if they did Scotland really would be Quids in, or Euros in...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

In the event of a Yes vote in Scotland, there would have to be some sort of split of the existing military kit, infrastructure, troops etc. or an agreement to continue with a UK military inc. Indy Scotland as there is absolutely 0% chance of the Westminster government letting Scotland swanny off with no debt, as if they did Scotland really would be Quids in, or Euros in...

And it's why I believe there will still be a UK military which Scotland would be apart of instead of an Independant Scottish Military - it would be the most workable way forward.

 

[ger147]

And it's why I believe there will still be a UK military which Scotland would be apart of instead of an Independant Scottish Military - it would be the most workable way forward.

It would certainly make more sense than trying to work out what 8.2% of an aircraft carrier was. What would Scotland get, all the dishes and cutlery?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

It's based upon 22 years of experience working in the military. That's why I believe a Scottish Military is unworkable . I think the actual plan is just to have a Scottish battalion but nothing about an Air Force or Navy.

Again, your showing your ignorance.There is a plan for a navy/army/air force, its been costed and its in the white paper.

And working in the military doesn't give you an inside track.

 

[Val]

Let's not start getting personal shall we - I'm giving my view point on a unworkable or affordable Scottish military after seeing how the Military works for the last 22 years. Don't start dishing out the insults ok.

What we can do is revisits this in the years to come and you will find no change in the military right now. It's unworkable or affordable for a separate Scottish Military to work as a separate force. There will be a UK military which Scottish Battalions will be a part of.

No there won't, if Scotland splits there will be a Scottish military. Scotland as a stand alone country won't "borrow" soldiers/sailors or airmen, if they can't prove they can do it then IMO there will be no YES vote.

Stevie speaks on the Army side of things and is probably bang on with his assesment of numbers, naval and airforce numbers will follow suit. It's not as if we need to build any of these, we have them already or will the UK government try and reclaim these sites as UK assets?

As Stevie highlighted the biggest foreseeable issue is if UK service personel want to join a Scottish military, that more than anything would be the YES campaigns biggest stumbling block on defence.

 

[stevie_r]

It's based upon 22 years of experience working in the military. That's why I believe a Scottish Military is unworkable . I think the actual plan is just to have a Scottish battalion but nothing about an Air Force or Navy.

Battalion? Brigade + mate, a Navy and Air Force are noted in the white paper:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/11/9348/10

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Again, your showing your ignorance.There is a plan for a navy/army/air force, its been costed and its in the white paper.

And working in the military doesn't give you an inside track.

When did I suggest anything about any "inside track"

Can you show me this costing and white paper of the Scottish Air Force please. Which bases will they use , including the Air Defense structure including air and ground and Radar. Also including the personnel and equipment to patrol the skies and the ground crew to back them. Also including the training facilities for all the trades ( all currently in England or Wales ) plus the servicing of the A/C ( done in England ) . Currently the Air Force has multiple tactical deployable trades all based in England. Currently a lot of the instructors are civilians living in England around the base areas. There is so much more - could go on forever.

 

[Val]

What different career would a solider get in the Scottish Military ?

I suppose there is lovely outposts for them to work at - forget places like Cyprus , holland , Belgium and Ascension etc when they could be in Benbecula.

They would also have to repopulate all the Radar sites which are controlled remotely by sites in the UK. They are in some wonderful places in the middle of nowhere.

I'd rather go to Benbecula than the Ascension Isles, a god awful place that all it has going for it is sunshine. It sounds nice but in reality, its the land that time forgot, at least it was back in '97.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Let's not start getting personal shall we - I'm giving my view point on a unworkable or affordable Scottish military after seeing how the Military works for the last 22 years. Don't start dishing out the insults ok.

What we can do is revisits this in the years to come and you will find no change in the military right now. It's unworkable or affordable for a separate Scottish Military to work as a separate force. There will be a UK military which Scottish Battalions will be a part of.

So Scottish forces pretty much permanently part of a Joint Forces with rUK then.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So Scottish forces pretty much permanently part of a Joint Forces with rUK then.

rUK ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'd rather go to Benbecula than the Ascension Isles, a god awful place that all it has going for it is sunshine. It sounds nice but in reality, its the land that time forgot, at least it was back in '97.

You have just described Benbecula without the sunshine plus the added wind and small gene pool

 

[stevie_r]

I'd rather go to Benbecula than the Ascension Isles, a god awful place that all it has going for it is sunshine. It sounds nice but in reality, its the land that time forgot, at least it was back in '97.

I was there for an hour, then got back on the plane and carried on heading south