Scottish independence

[chrisd]

Membership of the EU does not mandate membership of the Euro. If the Scots elect not to take the Euro then they would to negotiate membership of the pound with the English or even a new currency. Assuming that both Europe and the 'remaining UK' would impose terms not favourable to Scotland, then the politicians might make the argument that their own currency would give them much more flexibility

As far as I understand, entry to the EU requires agreement to join the Euro. If Scotland wanted the pound then they wouldn't really be independent as the Bank of England would dictate interest rates and that would apply to Scotland too, except the BoE would, I suspect, put England, Ireland and Wales needs first. So, in dictating interest rate we also decide your mortgage rates and business loan costs and largely dictate most of your fiscal policies. To suggest that you could keep the pound seems to me the same fudging of issues that permeate through the whole of the plan -Scotland have to either go, or stay, there isn't really a halfway house where they stay for the bits that they benefit from.

As I see it a lot of the decisions as to what happens after a yes vote arnt in the hands of the Scottish Government, entry terms to EU, currency, immigration

 

[Hacker Khan]

I thought Eddi Reader came across as a hard faced cow, an ignorant, rude person whom I wouldn't want to share a toilet with.

Did she sing Patients of Angels? Not normally a fan of her music but I think this song is lovely.

[video=youtube;EMRLKtkE38Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMRLKtkE38Q[/video]

 

[Duckster]

As far as I understand, entry to the EU requires agreement to join the Euro. If Scotland wanted the pound then they wouldn't really be independent as the Bank of England would dictate interest rates and that would apply to Scotland too, except the BoE would, I suspect, put England, Ireland and Wales needs first. So, in dictating interest rate we also decide your mortgage rates and business loan costs and largely dictate most of your fiscal policies. To suggest that you could keep the pound seems to me the same fudging of issues that permeate through the whole of the plan -Scotland have to either go, or stay, there isn't really a halfway house where they stay for the bits that they benefit from.

As I see it a lot of the decisions as to what happens after a yes vote arnt in the hands of the Scottish Government, entry terms to EU, currency, immigration

Here here!

 

[DCB]

Who's actually running the country at the moment ? All the main players from the Scottish Government seem to be so heavily involved in the independence argument that I wonder if anyone is actually bothering to keep a hand on the tiller to get us through this current year and it's own set of problems.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I quite like the sensible wee guy from the Greens. At least he comes across as a professional.

Patrick Harvie is one of the few quality politicians we have (if that's not an oxymoron). His contribution to the recent Equal Marriage debate was fantastic.

Sadly I disagree with him on too many big issues (independence, nuclear power) to vote for him......

 

[FairwayDodger]

Who's actually running the country at the moment ? All the main players from the Scottish Government seem to be so heavily involved in the independence argument that I wonder if anyone is actually bothering to keep a hand on the tiller to get us through this current year and it's own set of problems.

A good question, along with who's paying for all the pro-independence paraphernalia the SNP are churning out?

 

[SocketRocket]

QT always seems to have a selective audience that reflects the BBC's political agenda. I noticed that Dimbleby announced it was split 50/50 for and against, not really a true representation of current forecasts.

 

[SocketRocket]

Patrick Harvie is one of the few quality politicians we have (if that's not an oxymoron). His contribution to the recent Equal Marriage debate was fantastic.

Sadly I disagree with him on too many big issues (independence, nuclear power) to vote for him......

He seems to me to be like many 'Greens'. Far Left Wingers who mask their true colours under an 'Eco Warrior' viel.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Please can we get two things correct before we start any more posts.
If Elected an independent Scotland will be negotiating with the rest of the UK and NOT England.
And
The Bank of England is an independent body, free from political control, that represents the UK. Think Bank of UK if that makes it easier. It's sole purpose is to protect the pound. [BTW it was founded by a Scotsman and currently run by a Canadian]

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Liberal Democrat.

= we will get slaughtered tonight so we might as well send in the Liberal.

Golding was quite good, she seems to have far too much common sense to be a Tory.

 

[FairwayDodger]

QT always seems to have a selective audience that reflects the BBC's political agenda. I noticed that Dimbleby announced it was split 50/50 for and against, not really a true representation of current forecasts.

Seems almost reasonable to debate a yes/no position? Maybe better split 33/33/33 between yes/no/undecided?

 

[cleanstrike]

If the Scots decide to break away ....

Will they revert to being the 'Kingdom of Scotland' or will they declare a republic?

If it's the former, has the search for a living descendent of James VI already begun?

If it's the latter, who will become President - Alex Salmond, perhaps?

And will the clans start asking for their historical lands to be returned to them?

 

[stevie_r]

Please can we get two things correct before we start any more posts.
If Elected an independent Scotland will be negotiating with the rest of the UK and NOT England.
And
The Bank of England is an independent body, free from political control, that represents the UK. Think Bank of UK if that makes it easier. It's sole purpose is to protect the pound. [BTW it was founded by a Scotsman and currently run by a Canadian]

To state that the Bank of England was founded by a Scot is not entirely accurate Doon. A plan devised by a Scot and not acted upon until over three years later hardly constitutes the Bank being founded by him IMO.

 

[Fish]

Golding was quite good, she seems to have far too much common sense to be a Tory.

I noticed she was far more respected when she was speaking than anyone else, hardly anyone interrupted her or tried to shout her down or talk over her.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

One thing that bothers me now that the vote looks like being close.
What is the carrying majority?
51%-49% would be an awful result.
I think I read somewhere that 51% will carry but that seems to be a bit daft.
Is it 51% of the population or the voters......anyone know?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

I would be interested to know if you feel this is just a one way stretch.

Certainly not.Scotland has to be responsible for any liabilities incurred by The UK whilst we were part of it, whether by population % or whatever.But lets not kid ourselves on here, IF there is a yes vote next year, you'll see a dramatic change in approach from the unionists, they'll need to come to the middle and make pragmatic choices, some they won't want to do, some they'll be happy enough with.Same applies to Scotland.Want the £?, fine take your share of the debt.Want us to endorse your NATO application?, give us more time to remove the nukes.Europe?Support us keeping the block grant in its current form.Want to use offices in all the embassies we have around the world?Renounce any right of 'ownership' on overseas territories-that's a biggie btw imo

and so on.

What folk are you referring to - those having a vote or those not having a vote?

Those having a vote may not care if your assertions are true - those not having a vote - well - they don't have a vote.

more a general point tbh, I think the importance/significance of Scotland as a country, both with its assets and it position isn't given the weight its probably due, from both side of Hadrians wall.The cowering apologetic Jock who refuses to believe we're capable of running our own affairs is as prevalent as the confident English person 'granting' Scotland various things.Both are dafties.

Popcorn time.

Question time on now from Falkirk.

Well I though that was crap. Eddi Reader will watch that back and hopefully cringe, precisely the opposite of what I want from the Yes campaign.To a lesser extent the same could be said for my arch nemesis Maggie Curran.By Sauzee I hate the woman. Annabel Goldie was decent, and Sturgeon and Carmichael were still trying to get over Wednesday.

Star of the show, as predicted, Patrick Harvie.Intelligent,pragmatic,realistic and able to compromise.More Patrick Harvies, please.

 

[stevie_r]

One thing that bothers me now that the vote looks like being close.
What is the carrying majority?
51%-49% would be an awful result.
I think I read somewhere that 51% will carry but that seems to be a bit daft.
Is it 51% of the population or the voters......anyone know?

51% of the votes cast I believe.

edit: Have just read somewhere that it is actually 50% + 1 vote or in other words a simple majority

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I found the suggestion that if things didn't work out after a yes vote that we might get back together again rather presumptive.

Also that giving extra nursery care was somehow dependent on scrapping Trident when it's clear that the SNP could do that tomorrow if they wanted.

Arguments about democracy got a bit confused - if everyone in the UK votes at a general election and the Tories win, the Scots can't argue that it's undemocratic because none of them wanted a Tory government and the argument that they didn't vote for an alliance cuts no ice either as none of us voted for it, and I suspect, none of us want it either!

I also fail to understand how Scotland can be a member of the EU without taking the Euro and having new terms imposed on them which potentially makes a vast difference to the voting public and their reading of the white paper.

It was the (Westminster) Lib Dem Scottish Secretary who was suggesting that Scotland might want 'back in' to the UK if things didn't go so well - not something the YES campaign would ever suggest would be a possibility or a 'fallback'. But as AC was doing on behalf of BT - try and 'frighten' Scots by telling them that once they are out of the UK they are out and no way back. As I said - a NO means no way out of the UK - possibly ever - and that might worry some voters.

Take care not to conflate issues English voters have with the democratic process and government in England - that's an affair for England to sort out if Scotland were yes. Somone on R5L was complaining that with no Scottish Labour MPS England would be stuck with a Tory government - well that may be the case - so something England has to sort out if it's not happy with it. Nothing to do with Scotland.

And why should Scotland not have the same membership conditions as the rUK. It's easy to say that it won't but there is absolutely no evidence to back that up - again assertions made by BT (based upon what a Spanish PM says when clearly he is aiming his comments internally to Spain/Catalunia). The EU will want Scotland as a member - Scotland is a relatively wealthy and prosperous country. Besides as someone said - you can say that this, that and the other won't happen around such as the EU membership and Sterling post a NO vote, but in reality the probability is that Scotland would be in the EU with Sterling as it's currency.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Liberal Democrat.

Sorry - yes - but he might as well be as Westminster LibDem U turn into the Tories

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I noticed she was far more respected when she was speaking than anyone else, hardly anyone interrupted her or tried to shout her down or talk over her.

No point in arguing with the Scottish Tory - quietly listen to what they say and then get on debating with folks who matter

No - that's maybe not fair.