Scottish independence
- Thread starter gryffindor
- Start date
... Comes to mind...
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Ah! So that makes it all OK then, I never looked at it that way. Must be nice to live in a country without unemployment, plenty of nice houses for everyone and under used schools and hospitals.
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Sweep
Journeyman Pro
There you go then. That's the answer! Only accept immigrants if they go to Scotland. TBH it all getting a bit overcrowded down here.
Sharktooth
Head Pro
Seems to be an independence of convenience. We want independence but errrrm yeah we will keep British passports, oh and the currency as well. Joke
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
...and so to this morning - and on Radio a representative of the Local Government Association tells listeners that they will be looking for Barnett funding arrangements to be 'pulled' following a Scottish independence NO vote - as the 'regions' - that's the parts of the UK not England - get more than their fair share and things must change.
I hope that voters north of border are asking for a rebuttal of that from BT - and if that rebuttal is not forthcoming what the impact of a new funding arrangement will be. Lots of 'benefits' enjoyed at the moment by Scottish residents not enjoyed by rUK are clearly at risk if the arrangements are changed.
I hope that voters north of border are asking for a rebuttal of that from BT - and if that rebuttal is not forthcoming what the impact of a new funding arrangement will be. Lots of 'benefits' enjoyed at the moment by Scottish residents not enjoyed by rUK are clearly at risk if the arrangements are changed.
ger147
Tour Winner
Too busy at the moment trying to confirm what will happen to Eastenders if there is a Yes vote.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
I don't suppose for one second that the folk south of the border give any thought to the fact that the Scottish government just might be managing their equal share of the UK's money pot better than they are.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Nope - they don't - I suggest to them that that might just be the case - but they are deaf-eared to that sort of logic. They just think that residents of Scotland get all those 'benefits' because they get more than their fair share from Westminster. And not only is that not fair - it is not sustainable - so following a NO vote there will be HUGE pressure on the Westminster government to pull Burnett funding arrangements and come up with a new arrangement that voters in England deem to be fair to England and the English regions.
If I had a vote I'd be trying very hard to find out what the h**l is going to happen post-NO - because 'carry on as before' is not going to be allowed to happen. Scots voters really need to understand the resentment down here - and to be honest I don't think they do. We ALL feel screwed at the moment - and Scots getting free this and that - well...
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
I would imagine the SE England housing benefit and London weighting on salaries is a vast sum of money that the UK's budget carries.
For what........to have a very false inflated housing market in SE England.
Who benefits from that.........Landlords and property developers.
If the Barratt formula is to be re-visited I would imagine that the other regions will want a level playing field to start with. So scrap the London weighting and spread the wealth throughout the country.
Is it only me who is annoyed that the proposed minimum living wage will be about £2 more in the London area.
For what........to have a very false inflated housing market in SE England.
Who benefits from that.........Landlords and property developers.
If the Barratt formula is to be re-visited I would imagine that the other regions will want a level playing field to start with. So scrap the London weighting and spread the wealth throughout the country.
Is it only me who is annoyed that the proposed minimum living wage will be about £2 more in the London area.
What has finance got to do with self determination? Sounds like its a marriage of (financial) convenience to the Scots, just as it was when Scotland formed the Union with England. If you want self determination and independance, at least have the decency to want it for the right reasons rather than the "what's in it for me" attitude.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
It does indeed seem to have been reduced to such a debate - after all that is why non-dom Scots are not getting a vote - we are not affected - apparently. What would an Easter European really know or care about Scottish culture, identity and aspirations. Well they don't need to know or care anything as the vote will simply be on whether or not a voter feels they will be better or worse off in the short term. Indeed the referendum to many will be more akin to being able to vote directly on a budget - nothing to do with nationality - all to do with short term consideration of money in pockets.
And that sort of debate is encouraged by BT on a basis of 'better the devil you know' - look at the risks to the £ in your pocket. And so it is. But I would like to hear from BT what they think what the reduction in the block grant will be following a NO vote - and how they think that such a cut could be accommodated without impacting services and Scottish life in general. Because if their argument is largely based upon fiscal and spending considerations - then we have to know the likely impact of new funding arrangements post-NO, post-Barnett.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Excellent post.
The whole debate has boiled down to the for and against camps both lying about what will happen financially depending on the outcome of the vote. They either don't want to tell us the truth or (more likely) they really don't know. Each side puts the best possible spin on their preference and the worst possible on the other side. It's pathetic and it's embarrassing.
just jumping in and out this thread, which I find quite enlightening.
Wasn't there a white paper being published by Shrek and his friends with answers this month?
There is one absolute undeniable outcome that will happen if Scotland decide to be alone, my family will be moving down south and some extended family and their business will as well
Wasn't there a white paper being published by Shrek and his friends with answers this month?
There is one absolute undeniable outcome that will happen if Scotland decide to be alone, my family will be moving down south and some extended family and their business will as well
ger147
Tour Winner
There will be no cut in the block grant in this parliament. The 2014 Queens Speech is in May 2014 and to include any such legislation would be a disaster for the BT camp. May 2015 is a general election so it's impossible for anyone to say what will happen post No to the grant as no-one knows who the Westminster government will be in 2015.
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
But the grant WILL be cut - 2015 or whenever. I have absolutely no doubt on that regardless of whoever is in power in Westminster following the 2015 general election. The pressure from the English electorate will be too high in the lead up to the election. Labour, Tories and LibDem manifestos will have to include something about a review of the Barnett funding arrangements - whether or not they explicitly state they will cut funding that is what the English electorate will be expecting.
And we will be expecting a SIGNIFICANT cut - so for instance voters down here will not accept a level of funding that enables Holyrood to continue to fund Scottish universities to the current level that means are no student fees.
After all, what is the risk to the party in government in Westminster of cutting the block grant post a NO vote and post a 2015 general election. The risk of independence will have gone; Labour would gain seats in England what they would lose in Scotland; Tories have (and post a 2015 gen election would still have) nothing to lose in Scotland.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
just jumping in and out this thread, which I find quite enlightening.
Wasn't there a white paper being published by Shrek and his friends with answers this month?
There is one absolute undeniable outcome that will happen if Scotland decide to be alone, my family will be moving down south and some extended family and their business will as well
You think things are better down here do you? Rather typical of the Scottish delusion that is prevalent over the 'good life' available to all down here.
ger147
Tour Winner
I can't argue with your beliefs or personal predictions for the future, but they are just that and have absolutely no basis in fact at the moment. You can believe the grant will be cut in the future but you categorically cannot KNOW that it will be cut as no-one does.
What I would be very interested in finding out is on what mandate you speak for the English electorate?
StuartD
Tour Rookie
Finances are all that matters to me.
I am a fiercely proud Scot but whether it’s a Scotland as part of a union or not is all about how secure I would feel.
I have voted SNP before and have had some members at my door asking how I intended to vote. I informed them that I would be voting “No†as I work in the defence industry and our employers have given no guarantees on what may happen and that the SNP defence policy was ropey at best I was then informed by the 2 party members at my door that I needed to “look at the bigger pictureâ€, its all about our identity as a nation, self-determination and be in control of our own destiny etc. and other romantic stuff, which is all rather nice I admit.
I told them that my “only big picture†was looking after my family, keeping a roof over their head and putting food on the table for them and I would feel much more secure doing this as part of the union.
Does that make me part of “what’s in it for me†brigade and voting for the wrong reasons?
Maybe, but I don’t believe anyone would look at it any differently.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
But what has basis of fact - almost EVERYTHING about Scotland's finances is predicated upon assumptions about what will or will not be post a YES or a NO. So you or I do not KNOW whether things will be better or worse post a YES. What I do know is the strength of feeling in England about free prescriptions, uni places etc in Scotland - and that feeling is ACTUAL and not estimated.
Scots are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think English electorate will allow the current position to continue post a NO vote. The vast majority (I'd guess) of English voters are finding things very tough at the moment - and seeing Scots getting this, that and the other for free on the back of Westminster funding does not go down well.
And the BT Campaign telling the Scottish electorate that they can have the best of both worlds by voting NO only serves to wind up folk in England even more. In the run-up to a 2015 general election and following a NO vote the political parties will not be able to ignore calls from English voters for a new funding arrangement and cuts of the Scottish block grant - and there will be nothing Scotland will be able to do about it. I think you have a right to know what's in store for you post NO.
I have no mandate to speak on behalf of anyone but myself - but I live, work and play with English voters and I hear what many say. But you are quite right - it's got nothing at all to do with me as I don't have a vote. Even although when my mum get's older it will probably be me who will have to come to Scotland to sort out that she is OK in her home or elsewhere, and getting the support she needs from the state. But I'm not affected...so that's me put in my place.
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jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
Just to try and help clarify the myth that everything is glorious down in prosperous London. Whilst this may be true for those who have owned property for a long while, the rest of us aren't in such a rosy position.
The average first time buyer down here is now almost 40, with average house prices in June 2013 being £475,000 that means having to save up a hell of a lot of money to put down a 10-20% deposit.
Furthermore, whilst admittedly some of those in the city earn silly money, in all reality this isn't the case for 75% of people living here. Someone like myself who moved here to work in an industry which doesn't exist outside of London is competing in a fiercely competitive job market and as such, wages are much lower than you'd expect without looking into it. After 2 1/2 years down here my monthly take home after tax is around £1,200 - with rent and bills being around £700 and travel another £100 there's not an awful lot left over to pay for other outgoings such as food and beer!
I appreciate that some Londoners are doing well, but on the whole these are people that have been down here and settled for a while, not young people getting on to the job and housing ladders for the first time. Put simply, the cost of living down here is too high, and without someone stepping in and knocking £200,000 off the value of each house, the London living wage needs to be higher to ensure fairness for those that want to try and make a living here - particularly in industries and roles which do not exist outside of the capital.
Just my 2p
The average first time buyer down here is now almost 40, with average house prices in June 2013 being £475,000 that means having to save up a hell of a lot of money to put down a 10-20% deposit.
Furthermore, whilst admittedly some of those in the city earn silly money, in all reality this isn't the case for 75% of people living here. Someone like myself who moved here to work in an industry which doesn't exist outside of London is competing in a fiercely competitive job market and as such, wages are much lower than you'd expect without looking into it. After 2 1/2 years down here my monthly take home after tax is around £1,200 - with rent and bills being around £700 and travel another £100 there's not an awful lot left over to pay for other outgoings such as food and beer!
I appreciate that some Londoners are doing well, but on the whole these are people that have been down here and settled for a while, not young people getting on to the job and housing ladders for the first time. Put simply, the cost of living down here is too high, and without someone stepping in and knocking £200,000 off the value of each house, the London living wage needs to be higher to ensure fairness for those that want to try and make a living here - particularly in industries and roles which do not exist outside of the capital.
Just my 2p
