Scottish independence

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Interesting that in the Hootsmon [Scotsman] poll most felt that devo max would lead to greater taxes.

Indeed it might - as might no change also lead to greater taxes. After all who is to stop a government Westminster increasing taxes and the Burnett formula being revised - especially with Scottish representation at Westminster reduced. All of which become more likely once the threat of independence has gone and if devo max (whatever that might be) withers on the vine - with English voters screaming their heads off about their plight.

Scots might vote for no change in the referendum and subsequent Holyrood and Westminster elections - but that won't stop Westminster applying and imposing change on Scotland. If I were a voter in Scotland I'd be worried about a post NO environment.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

SWL
Independence is a total dead duck.
The percentage of Scots wanting it has never been lower [26%].

Is it not notable down south that most items on the UK national news now start with 'In England and Wales'.
That is because so much of the infrastructure in Scotland is now 'self governed' eg Law, Education, Health, Police, Envoirnment. That only leaves Defence and Finance and ?????
I can't see that ever returning to where it was before devolution because it has been a great success.

There is very little at Westminster now to involve Scottish MP's. We might as well make them part time as there influence is waining every day.
Some form of additional independence is what is required while keeping Scotland in the UK.
If that involves tax control and it fails miserably....what then?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

The sooner Scotland gets its independence the better.

Build a massive wall at the border and keep them all locked in.

 

[SocketRocket]

The sooner Scotland gets its independence the better.

Build a massive wall at the border and keep them all locked in.

Or us locked out

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There is very little at Westminster now to involve Scottish MP's. We might as well make them part time as there influence is waining every day.
Some form of additional independence is what is required while keeping Scotland in the UK.
If that involves tax control and it fails miserably....what then?

A strong NO vote will tell English voters that they will have to put up with Scotland as part of the union pretty much for good. There will therefore be huge pressure from voters in England on their MPs to change things relating to Scotland. And because of that there will be a reduction in number of Scottish constituency MPs at Westminster and because of that will come a reduction in the influence of Scots MPs on non-devolved matters; matters than can affect the budget available to Scotland under the Barnett formula; reduction in influence over defence matters including Trident (on the 'Clyde'); and the structure of the Barnett formula itself.

England won't start to be out of the financial mire it is in for well after the referendum. The pressure from English voters for change will not be able to be resisted and the views of Scottish voters will hardly count. The view of some here of south of the border backs up this notion. Scots should not underestimate or ignore the bad feeling that exists in many English towards aspects of public service funding and provision in Scotland compared with England. The status quo for Scotland in a continued UK is not an option for voters in England.

This is one possible scenario of a NO vote and maybe why the BT campaign is not being very forthcoming with any guarantees about the 'what after a NO' question.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The sooner Scotland gets its independence the better.

Build a massive wall at the border and keep them all locked in.

What about the English border folk who choose to use Scottish schools and doctors.
I think Northumberland, Cumbria and Cornwall would be much better off in Scotland.
Newcastle would also be guaranteed European football every year

 

[Wildrover]

What about the English border folk who choose to use Scottish schools and doctors.
I think Northumberland, Cumbria and Cornwall would be much better off in Scotland.
Newcastle would also be guaranteed European football every year

I think you need to look an atlas if you think Cornwall is in the border country, border with Devon yes.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I think you need to look an atlas if you think Cornwall is in the border country, border with Devon yes.

It shares a sea border that used to be used quite a lot, will that do.
I just included Cornwall as they are quite like us.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Whilst I have no issue with regions of England wishing for their own devolution or independence (Cornwall, North East etc) - it seems to me that bringing them up in any discussion on independence for Scotland is frankly missing the point (deliberately or not) as they are irrelevant to the debate - indeed they are quite separate debates to be had. The independence referendum debate is not about setting precedents - it is a debate about the future status of a country.

Similarly jokes about erecting walls etc actually have a serious core as they both indicate a lack of understanding of the seriousness and importance to Scots of the referendum in Scotland to, and also the 'somewhat' negative attitude of many English towards the Scots. In every joke there is a kernal of truth.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

I think the mood for independence is growing*, simply because Scotland can remove the Conservative party from our political process overnight.I know alot of English folk wish they could do the same.

*I realise polls don't reflect this, but they do show the undecideds growing at the expense of the No vote

People are also starting to see The NEW Labour party for what they are, perfectly displayed by Anas Sarwar last week.Oh for a Scottish Labour party going back to it's roots instead of this Democrat/Republican brutality we see in Westminster with the three main parties carbon copies of each other.

And if you don't cast your vote in Scotland, why do you think you should be entitled to do so on this special occasion?If a person leaves Scotland, it doesn't make them any less Scottish, but it makes your opinion invalid (unless yer dear auld ma lets you use her vote) I value the opinion of the Pole,Pakistani,Chinese or Spanish tax payer and resident in Scotland more than some ex-pat Jock proclaiming their love for Scotland more than yours.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And if you don't cast your vote in Scotland, why do you think you should be entitled to do so on this special occasion?If a person leaves Scotland, it doesn't make them any less Scottish, but it makes your opinion invalid (unless yer dear auld ma lets you use her vote) I value the opinion of the Pole,Pakistani,Chinese or Spanish tax payer and resident in Scotland more than some ex-pat Jock proclaiming their love for Scotland more than yours.

Have I not said that I have to accept that the voting franchise is now set and I will not get a vote. That does not stop me commenting - or would you wish I shut up about that as the vote will not affect me and so I shouldn't even be commenting and taking part in the debate.

Actually having reread your post you DONT think I should comment

If a person leaves Scotland, it doesn't make them any less Scottish, but it makes your opinion invalid

and as far as this...

I value the opinion of the Pole,Pakistani,Chinese or Spanish tax payer and resident in Scotland more than some ex-pat Jock proclaiming their love for Scotland more than yours

Honest to god - I will not rise to this...

Because I can't believe that you actually mean wjhat you have written

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Have I not said that I have to accept that the voting franchise is now set and I will not get a vote. That does not stop me commenting - or would you wish I shut up about that as the vote will not affect me and so I shouldn't even be commenting and taking part in the debate.

Actually having reread your post you DONT think I should comment



and as far as this...



Honest to god - I will not rise to this...

Because I can't believe that you actually mean wjhat you have written

Of course I mean what I've written.

You chose to remove yourself from Scotland, for whatever reason, whether it's financial,personal or legal...you made that choice.When you made that choice, you presumably registered to vote/pay tax/use the services of the region/country you decided offered you superior options to those in Scotland.Those were all decisions that required a degree of thought, I'd guess.

So now the people who have decided to stay in Scotland (or move to Scotland) are being asked how the country they live in will be ran.It's only fair that those people (and not adios Andy) decide one way or another.

you can have an opinion on Scottish affairs on an online forum,pub,golf course or work place, but becuase all of those places are not in Scotland ( because of a choice you made) your opinion, when it comes to it, is invalid/unimportant/irrelevant

you must see this as correct?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Who deserves the vote.
My Scottish nephew who moved to Hong Kong 10 years ago or my English born daughter who moved to Scotland 10 years ago.

Anyone who lives in Scotland is fine by me.

 

[Dodger]

Of course I mean what I've written.

You chose to remove yourself from Scotland, for whatever reason, whether it's financial,personal or legal...you made that choice.When you made that choice, you presumably registered to vote/pay tax/use the services of the region/country you decided offered you superior options to those in Scotland.Those were all decisions that required a degree of thought, I'd guess.

So now the people who have decided to stay in Scotland (or move to Scotland) are being asked how the country they live in will be ran.It's only fair that those people (and not adios Andy) decide one way or another.

you can have an opinion on Scottish affairs on an online forum,pub,golf course or work place, but becuase all of those places are not in Scotland ( because of a choice you made) your opinion, when it comes to it, is invalid/unimportant/irrelevant

you must see this as correct?

Post of the week.

 

[CMAC]

The sooner Scotland gets its independence the better.

Build a massive wall at the border and keep them all locked in.

Leave a gate open though for all us normal people that would leave if that catastrophe ever materialised.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Leave a gate open though for all us normal people that would leave if that catastrophe ever materialised.

Never knew Anas Sarwar posted on here.

Can you specifically tell me how it would be a catastrophe please?

Do you mean financially?It would be a catastrophe because all the money raised in Scotland would stay in Scotland?

Do you mean with reference to the military?The majority of Scottish people want trident subs removed from our country and oppose the wars Westminster seem determined to continue to lead The UK into.

Do you mean because you agree with The Barnett Formula?As the tory/labour/lib dem govts continue to privatise The NHS in rUK, the calculation used to decide the block grant means our grant gets reduced.Thats a catastrophe.

Do you mean because you're happy that Westminster re-drew maritime borders so when you're playing golf in St.Andrews and you look out over the North Sea, you're looking at English waters.The border used to be where you'd expect it to be.Wonder why they did that?

It would be a catastrophe if Scotland became the first ever country, in the history of countries, to be laden with natural resources and become poorer.

If you could give me a specific reason why it would be a catastrophe, I'd be surprised and you should go speak to Darling, darling as he refuses.

 

[FairwayDodger]

As people of the world we should be coming together, not pulling apart. That's why I'm voting no.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

As people of the world we should be coming together, not pulling apart. That's why I'm voting no.

That's seriously why you are voting no?Will you be driving to the voting station in your hover car or riding on your unicorn?

Although, in fairness, you'd have the same representation in a galactic empire that you have currently in Westminster

 

[FairwayDodger]

That's seriously why you are voting no?Will you be driving to the voting station in your hover car or riding on your unicorn?

Although, in fairness, you'd have the same representation in a galactic empire that you have currently in Westminster

Yeah, I'm philosophically opposed to it. Couldn't care less if independence makes me better or worse off economically.

Ridicule that if you like it's certainly better than those who will vote yes purely out of anti-English hatred.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Ridicule that if you like it's certainly better than those who will vote yes purely out of anti-English hatred.

I'd ridicule them too, mibbe even a wee bit more than those who are taking a Michael Jackson 'we are the world' approach to it.