• We'd like to take this opportunity to wish you a Happy Holidays and a very Merry Christmas from all at Golf Monthly. Thank you for sharing your 2025 with us!

Scottish independence

FairwayDodger said:
It is just more scaremongering though.

This vote is about our identity as a nation - in the UK, or not. Far more important, IMO, than short term economics or concerns about what the next UK government may or may not do.

Post a "No" vote, as a Scot I will have as much say in the makeup of the next UK government as any other individual in England. If my view doesn't hold sway and a different government is elected, it's just democracy.

What happens post a "Yes" vote if part of Scotland disagrees with the majority view? A free state of Leith? Where does it end? Lets come together instead of pushing apart!
Click to expand...

IMO you are showing a bit of blind faith in what a Wesminster governmetn may chose to do following a NO vote and I struggle to see why it is any more scaremongering than the BT campaign - which seems from where I watch - to be no more than scaremongering.

And on this the answer is easy - the Scottish electorate accepts the decision and then votes for the government it wants in the next Scottish General Election. At least it has that control in it's own hand,s as opposed to not a lot of control and empathy over and with a Wesminster Tory/UKIP coalition government.
 
FairwayDodger said:
It is just more scaremongering though.

This vote is about our identity as a nation - in the UK, or not. Far more important, IMO, than short term economics or concerns about what the next UK government may or may not do.

Post a "No" vote, as a Scot I will have as much say in the makeup of the next UK government as any other individual in England. If my view doesn't hold sway and a different government is elected, it's just democracy.

What happens post a "Yes" vote if part of Scotland disagrees with the majority view? A free state of Leith? Where does it end? Lets come together instead of pushing apart!
Click to expand...

Already exists, sign up forms available in the volley,tam o shanter,central and ladbrokes.

Regular meeting at the benches at the kirkgate, bring your own don revie, I'll buy you a hotdog
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
IMO you are showing a bit of blind faith in what a Wesminster governmetn may chose to do following a NO vote and I struggle to see why it is any more scaremongering than the BT campaign - which seems from where I watch - to be no more than scaremongering.

And on this the answer is easy - the Scottish electorate accepts the decision and then votes for the government it wants in the next Scottish General Election. At least it has that control in it's own hand,s as opposed to not a lot of control and empathy over and with a Wesminster Tory/UKIP coalition government.
Click to expand...

I'm not showing any faith in what a westminster or scottish government will do. IMO it's just not relevant in this referendum.

You're right - both sides are scaremongering. Don't assume that because I'll be voting "no" that I admire the BT campaign.

You're assuming (scaremongering) a Tory/UKIP coalition... it may or may not happen and simply isn't relevant to any decision about Scottish independence. People need to see through the crap and make a decision for what it is not for any perceived SHORT TERM pain or gain.
 
And I hear The Proclaimers are making a film about it, looks interesting.

Did Leith not go for City status a couple of years ago? That would have been interesting co-joined Cities in Scotland.
 
FairwayDodger said:
I'm not showing any faith in what a westminster or scottish government will do. IMO it's just not relevant in this referendum.

You're right - both sides are scaremongering. Don't assume that because I'll be voting "no" that I admire the BT campaign.

You're assuming (scaremongering) a Tory/UKIP coalition... it may or may not happen and simply isn't relevant to any decision about Scottish independence. People need to see through the crap and make a decision for what it is not for any perceived SHORT TERM pain or gain.
Click to expand...

I'm not actually assuming anything - I'm pointing out a possibility - just as the BT campain are pointing out what are only possibilities about Scotland post a YES vote (though they make those possibilities sounds ''nailed on' likelihood). As far as I can see BT are using that scaremongering as the basis of their NO campaign whilst wilfully ignoring the uncertainties associated with a YES vote. Why are BT not telling you all the benefits that will come from staying together? The only plus I hear is backward lookinig - 'look at what a united kingdomn has achieved for Scotland in the past' Oh yes - let's have a look back the last 40yrs and examine what it has done for Scotland. Whilst interesting - as an argument for maintaining the union it doesn't get you very far. After all - 10yrs ago coalition Westminster government? No chance...and today? The past is the past and things change. You are voting NO to maintain the union - when unfortunately you (and I to whom it doesn't matter) don't actually know what the nature of that union will be one year after a NO vote.

And in the EU in 10 yrs? - being part of the greater rather than the lesser that you wish for - well who knows. My bet wouldn't suit your hopes I'm afraid. As previously pointed out - a YES vote would have Scotland as part of the greater EU whole almost certainly - the EU is by nature inclusive and would not reject an economically developed country like Scotland. At least that way you know your sole criteria would be fulfilled - whereas the otehr way offers increasing uncertainty and increased possibility of withdrawel in some way from the EU. I'm only saying - and it's only my opinion. But as it is your sole criteria...
 
I haven't read every posting in depth but enough to get a feel for the arguments, plus I was at Gleneagles a few weeks ago and spoke to one or two about the issue and definitely came away with the view that most in Scotland don't hate the English and I know that vice versa that to be true too.

I cant for one minute understand, other than for political gain, why every born Scot doesn't have the right to a vote. Surely that is a given right on such a major issue. To deny a person the vote because they currently reside in England and therefore are more likely to say NO is as outrageous as actually having a voting slip with NO removed as an option. If they want to rig the vote then they couldn't have planned it better.
 
chrisd said:
I cant for one minute understand, other than for political gain, why every born Scot doesn't have the right to a vote. Surely that is a given right on such a major issue. To deny a person the vote because they currently reside in England and therefore are more likely to say NO is as outrageous as actually having a voting slip with NO removed as an option. If they want to rig the vote then they couldn't have planned it better.
Click to expand...

Oh Chris - you have just made me laugh so much - hysterical laughing btw which will make sense if you know my view on that matter :)
 
chrisd said:
I cant for one minute understand, other than for political gain, why every born Scot doesn't have the right to a vote. Surely that is a given right on such a major issue. To deny a person the vote because they currently reside in England and therefore are more likely to say NO is as outrageous as actually having a voting slip with NO removed as an option. If they want to rig the vote then they couldn't have planned it better.
Click to expand...

I don't have a strong view on this one and can genuinely understand both sides of the argument. I'm sure if I was an ex-pat I'd want a vote but since I'm not it doesn't greatly bother me. I do believe those of us that live here have more invested and should take priority but I don't agree that those who have left should have no interest.

However, I'm actually prepared to cut Salmond some slack for once..... Perhaps it's just too difficult/expensive to give a vote to everyone born here who has subsequently left?
 
FairwayDodger said:
Perhaps it's just too difficult/expensive to give a vote to everyone born here who has subsequently left?
Click to expand...

Not really - I'm on the Register of Births & Deaths - and it will be held electronically (and not just scanned). If I want a vote I register for one (Scotland doesn't need to go chasing me) and my details are checked against the database. I'm confirmed as having been born in Scotland so I get sent information for a postal or on-line (if such exists) vote and my vote is subsequently handled accordingly. It's not as if there hasn't been plenty of time between the referendum announcement and voting day to have coped with requests.

Whether my vote would have only counted if the YES/NO margin was within a small tolerance (say 5%) and then/or would have been weighted say 0.1 against a domicile vote of 0.9 - who knows. I wouldn't have expected voting 'equality' with domicile voters but a say would have been nice. However all that is neither here nor there as I'm not getting a vote. And I've stopped arguing my case for one.
 
Last edited:
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Not really - I'm on the Register of Births & Deaths - and it will be held electronically (and not just scanned). If I want a vote I register for one (Scotland doesn't need to go chasing me) and my details are checked against the database. I'm confirmed as having been born in Scotland so I get sent information for a postal or on-line (if such exists) vote and my vote is handled accordingly.
Click to expand...

But how do they verify your identity? Especially if you've left the UK?

I don't know.... maybe it would be straightforward but seems open to abuse.
 
chrisd said:
I haven't read every posting in depth but enough to get a feel for the arguments, plus I was at Gleneagles a few weeks ago and spoke to one or two about the issue and definitely came away with the view that most in Scotland don't hate the English and I know that vice versa that to be true too.

I cant for one minute understand, other than for political gain, why every born Scot doesn't have the right to a vote. Surely that is a given right on such a major issue. To deny a person the vote because they currently reside in England and therefore are more likely to say NO is as outrageous as actually having a voting slip with NO removed as an option. If they want to rig the vote then they couldn't have planned it better.
Click to expand...

Should they remove the vote from people not born in Scotland that reside there?

Will they want their Eggs and Oats back?
 
Doon frae Troon said:
It's the voters roll...........simples.
When I lived in England I cast a vote for an English MP even though I was Scottish.
Click to expand...

Mind you there will be plenty of folk who have lived out of Scotland for up to 15yrs who will get a vote (I guess if they haven't registered elsewhere in the UK) - now they are not the most likely to bve affected. ANYWAY - it doesn't matter as the franchise is set.
 
Jack Wilshire on a hiding to nothing suggesting that a Belgian of Kosova-Albanian parents should not have a say in the future of England even though he could through residency. Come on Jack - don't you know that in Scotland any old Belgian Kosovan-Albanian with residency has a right to determine the future of Scotland so get real. :)
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Jack Wilshire on a hiding to nothing suggesting that a Belgian of Kosova-Albanian parents should not have a say in the future of England even though he could through residency. Come on Jack - don't you know that in Scotland any old Belgian Kosovan-Albanian with residency has a right to determine the future of Scotland so get real. :)
Click to expand...
I was surprised to learn this morning that it seems you only need to reside in a country for 5 years to become eligible to play for that country. Whilst I would like the kid to play for England, let's face it, he is never going to be English. It does seem to make a mockery of the whole international football thing.
I wonder if the same thing applied if you were born in England and a month later your parents moved to Rio before moving back home when you were 6. You never go back, but it turns out you are pretty good at booting a ball. Suddenly, when you are 28 you get a call from some mate of Pele and the next thing you know you are part of a World Cup winning team for a country you can hardly remember living in. Hmmm.
 
...Or....
maybe we should bring in an international transfer window! That way only the richest countries could win.
Who is your money on to win the World Cup Final in Qatar? It's China v Qatar. The hosts have home advantage, but China have Ronaldo and Messi.
And the scots could use all that fictitious oil money to buy themselves a decent goalie. :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Slab
Online Shopping
2 3
Replies
56
Views
1K
irip
I
Kennysarmy
Any used car guys on here?
2
Replies
23
Views
1K
Bunkermagnet
Bunkermagnet
N
Intelligent Golf / Club Systems Mobile App Merger
2
Replies
21
Views
2K
jim8flog
jim8flog
E
Booking away abroad
Replies
2
Views
581
stymied
S
Crazyface
Train Tickets
Replies
1
Views
176
Lord Tyrion
Lord Tyrion
Top