Scotland Independance vote

[Adi2Dassler]

As someone who works in the defence industry the thought of indepenence does scare me from a selfish personal viewpoint regarding my job security

Understandable.There are many areas that no-one has an answer for just now, and the question of armed forces/defense industry is a biggie.
I get the impression that Scottish men and women make up a disproportionally large part of the armed forces of The UK.Would The UK allow them to continue to serve?Who would be responsible for redundancies of a Scottish resident serving in a UK army?

If you work for Ferranti or Babcocks in Scotland, where does the work come from?Would a new Scotland finance re-training for someone like yourself to work in renewables or for one of the many new companies investing in Scotland, like Mitsubishi?

I'll see if I can find any info, and if I'm being too boring, tell me (except craw ;-) )

 

[NWJocko]

Alot of 16/17 year old also pay tax and contribute their fair share.The age thing is a bit of a dummy for me.the whole idea of independence is new to everyone, so everyone needs to be in full possession of the facts, whether your 16 or 46.

If they pay tax it will be a miniscule amount from a part time job (in most cases).

Most 16/17 year olds are in school.

When I was 16/17 I would probably have voted for full independence.

Now, having 15 years more life experience, I probably would not.

All very well saying it's "their future" but if, 10/15 years down the line they realise it's a mistake, what can they do?

 

[stef92]

I must say this interests me greatly seeing as I am a sassenach living in Scotland…

However, I just can't get my head round it all, and I am into politics too!

What I do think though is that mr cameron is trying to get a referendum now rather than in 2014 on the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn, which is a bit sly imo as surely it is the scottish parliament's choice when to have it.

I personally would think it would be a mistake for scotland to go independent for both "sides". I have no basis for this, it is just a gut feeling!

But one thing for sure, I think I would rather have Salmon as my PM than Mr Cameron…

 

[GB72]

Found this article that I found funny

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...-exactly-the-same,-warn-experts-201201114752/

 

[USER1999]

I get the impression that Scottish men and women make up a disproportionally large part of the armed forces of The UK.Would The UK allow them to continue to serve?Who would be responsible for redundancies of a Scottish resident serving in a UK army?

Why would one country want or allow soldiers from another to serve in their armed forces? I know there is a precedent with the Gurkhas, but a lot of them are being laid off now any way.

It is things like this that need sorting, in my view, as they have not been aired properly. I get the impression the Cameron will bend over on this, and the English tax payer will get shafted.

Once Scotland is gone, it should be English jobs for English people. We don't have other members of the EU serving in the military?

 

[Snelly]

I am all for Scottish independence.

Let Scotland stand on its own two feet is my view. I would love to know how a new Scottish independent parliament would tackle the big issues facing the country. For example, one in five Scottish children is in poverty i read in the Scotsman yesterday. Terrible.


By coincidence, I was in Glasgow yesterday. Any Scottish architect or planner employed between 1960 and 1990 has a lot to answer for. Bulgarian buildings have more character. In the grey skies of December, the housing estates looked utterly depressing. No wonder everyone likes a drink or two......

 

[Bikky73]

It's all starting to heat up now, I can understand to a point, that if Scotland want to pull out of the Union that is their decision and they should be able to vote accordingly.

I have to ask though - if the ballot paper is to ask whether the Scots want the D Max option on the ballot paper then - why are we English not getting a vote??

Chris

And why can you put scottish, irish, welsh on a passport application but english have to put british.?

If the Scottish want out, fine, but they should Pay us for the setup of their NHS/Police/Fire services. They also should have their own funding, and NOT get handouts from England. And all Illegal foreigners need to go home, that means If you don't have a work/study permit or on holiday then sorry but back to Scotland......

Hope they've thought it through properly.


But as I live so close to the border and regularly holiday/trip there I hope there's not too much change. (And if I was an MP I'd vote for personal interest not the best for the country)


*edit*
Oh and Scottish National Party and the rest.... Why no English National Party? only a British National Party, whom are said to be racist because they want Britain for the British... Same as every country world wide.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

And why can you put scottish, irish, welsh on a passport application but english have to put british.?

If the Scottish want out, fine, but they should Pay us for the setup of their NHS/Police/Fire services. They also should have their own funding, and NOT get handouts from England. And all Illegal foreigners need to go home, that means If you don't have a work/study permit or on holiday then sorry but back to Scotland......

Hope they've thought it through properly.
But as I live so close to the border and regularly holiday/trip there I hope there's not too much change. (And if I was an MP I'd vote for personal interest not the best for the country)

Welcome to the debate, Mr Griffin.

I'm pretty sure the taxes paid by residents of Scotland have contributed to set up of the NHS/Police/fire services as much as English or Welsh taxes have.

 

[Hobbit]

Last time I looked at various revenues/taxes, Scotland contributes approx £9million more than it receives from the Treasury, which at first glances looks wonderful. However, how much will the EU want as a nett contribution based on revenues/GDP(oil mainly) generated by a wealthy country like Scotland. Further to that, I can't see the world banks giving either Scotland or England/Wales/N. Ireland the Triple AAA credit rating they currently have if independance comes about. At this moment in time I'd vote against independance... assuming they'd let the English have a say on the break up of the Union.

 

[chris661]

Welcome to the debate, Mr Griffin.

I'm pretty sure the taxes paid by residents of Scotland have contributed to set up of the NHS/Police/fire services as much as English or Welsh taxes have.

How can that be so when there is around 10% of the population in Scotland? DOes that mean we only get 10% of the emergency services?

Still no one EVER has answered the question of what happens when the oil runs out? 55% income tax all round.

 

[thecraw]

And why can you put scottish, irish, welsh on a passport application but english have to put british.?

If the Scottish want out, fine, but they should Pay us for the setup of their NHS/Police/Fire services. They also should have their own funding, and NOT get handouts from England. And all Illegal foreigners need to go home, that means If you don't have a work/study permit or on holiday then sorry but back to Scotland......

Hope they've thought it through properly.


But as I live so close to the border and regularly holiday/trip there I hope there's not too much change. (And if I was an MP I'd vote for personal interest not the best for the country)


*edit*
Oh and Scottish National Party and the rest.... Why no English National Party? only a British National Party, whom are said to be racist because they want Britain for the British... Same as every country world wide.

Idiotic post.

 

[lobthewedge]

What happens to the overseas territories, surely Scotland has a stake in them?

How do they get divided up? Do we get 10% of Gibraltar?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

How can that be so when there is around 10% of the population in Scotland? DOes that mean we only get 10% of the emergency services?

Still no one EVER has answered the question of what happens when the oil runs out? 55% income tax all round.

I'd say yes, 10% of the population probably gets 10% of the services.As an example, I'd guess that for every one police officer in Edinburgh, there would probably be 10 in London ( if not more)

And regards to oil/gas, I'm keen to take that out of the equation but it does seem to be a major component of the debate, so i'll fire up something up in a mo.

 

[Val]

And why can you put scottish, irish, welsh on a passport application but english have to put british.?

If the Scottish want out, fine, but they should Pay us for the setup of their NHS/Police/Fire services. They also should have their own funding, and NOT get handouts from England. And all Illegal foreigners need to go home, that means If you don't have a work/study permit or on holiday then sorry but back to Scotland......

Hope they've thought it through properly.


But as I live so close to the border and regularly holiday/trip there I hope there's not too much change. (And if I was an MP I'd vote for personal interest not the best for the country)


*edit*
Oh and Scottish National Party and the rest.... Why no English National Party? only a British National Party, whom are said to be racist because they want Britain for the British... Same as every country world wide.

Racist, do us a favour and stay where you are and go elsewhere on holiday.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

OK, I realise I'll be getting tedious about this now, so I'll fire some stats up and leave it ( for a while)

Scotlands population makes up 8.5% of The UK population
Scotland GDP is 11.5% ( excluding oil and gas revenue)
We outperform the rest of The UK by 3% in production

Oil and gas revenue for 2009 = £13.9 Billion

Scotland would liable for 10% of The UK current debt, but also due 10% of any assets The UK hold.

Since 2006 upto 2010, The GER ( Govt Expenses & Revenue report)
Scotland = £3.5 Billion surplus
UK = £72 Billion Deficit

Exports in 2009
Scotland increased by 13 %
UK increased by 0.05%

In regard to oil running out in the next 30-40 years, a myth.Estimates suggest 100 years worth of oil production is more realistic...it may be harder to get to, but technology improves daily.New oil fields found off Rockall last year.

Trident replacements estimated to cost £100Billion, something Scotland would not burdened with.

Whiskey exports last year approx £3Billion with £700 Million in excise paid to London, another asset by-passing Scotland.

So combine all the above the capacity to claim VAT/Corporation tax/NI contributions...and reduce them to a level to make inward investment ( and job creation) more attractive to the likes of Mitsubushi and amazon, the case for independence is solid imo.

I've missed out wind/wave renewables because I don't have any figures, but we're supposedly at the forefront of that,too.

Ask yourself this-

Why does a political party who are generally despised in Scotland with almost zero support be so keen to keep Scotland as part of the Union?An England free of the SNP/Scottish Labour would almost guarantee a Conservative govt in England for a decade or so.

There must be a reason.It must be money, unless anyone can suggest anything else?

 

[NWJocko]

OK, I realise I'll be getting tedious about this now, so I'll fire some stats up and leave it ( for a while)

Scotlands population makes up 8.5% of The UK population
Scotland GDP is 11.5% ( excluding oil and gas revenue)
We outperform the rest of The UK by 3% in production

Oil and gas revenue for 2009 = £13.9 Billion

Scotland would liable for 10% of The UK current debt, but also due 10% of any assets The UK hold.

Since 2006 upto 2010, The GER ( Govt Expenses & Revenue report)
Scotland = £3.5 Billion surplus
UK = £72 Billion Deficit

Exports in 2009
Scotland increased by 13 %
UK increased by 0.05%

In regard to oil running out in the next 30-40 years, a myth.Estimates suggest 100 years worth of oil production is more realistic...it may be harder to get to, but technology improves daily.New oil fields found off Rockall last year.

Trident replacements estimated to cost £100Billion, something Scotland would not burdened with.

Whiskey exports last year approx £3Billion with £700 Million in excise paid to London, another asset by-passing Scotland.

So combine all the above the capacity to claim VAT/Corporation tax/NI contributions...and reduce them to a level to make inward investment ( and job creation) more attractive to the likes of Mitsubushi and amazon, the case for independence is solid imo.

I've missed out wind/wave renewables because I don't have any figures, but we're supposedly at the forefront of that,too.

Ask yourself this-

Why does a political party who are generally despised in Scotland with almost zero support be so keen to keep Scotland as part of the Union?An England free of the SNP/Scottish Labour would almost guarantee a Conservative govt in England for a decade or so.

There must be a reason.It must be money, unless anyone can suggest anything else?

Stats, love them, they are my job after all!

Out of genuine interest, does the £3.5bn surplus for Scotland include or exclude the Oil and Gas?

The point about Trident is fair to a point, albeit I assume Scotland would need to have some form of armed forces? What are the start up costs for that (if you know, I see you mentioned the forces was a bit of an unknown earlier in the thread)?

 

[SwingSlow]

I think the issue of the division of the national debt is "interesting" given the amount recently incurred to bail out RBS and Lloyds as a result of the HBOS rescue. Both Royal Bank of Scotland and Bank of Scotland (just a brief reminder of what the acronyms stand for) were strongly acquisitive and certainly with RBS aggressively so in the manner of their acquisition strategy, so perhaps there is an argument for just a little more than a pro-rata share of the national debt going to Scotland were there to be a separation.

Personally I hope that the Union stays intact, I think we would all be the poorer for a split.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Stats, love them, they are my job after all!

Out of genuine interest, does the £3.5bn surplus for Scotland include or exclude the Oil and Gas?

The point about Trident is fair to a point, albeit I assume Scotland would need to have some form of armed forces? What are the start up costs for that (if you know, I see you mentioned the forces was a bit of an unknown earlier in the thread)?

Excludes as all proceeds go directly to Westminster.

The armed forces are a tricky one, but I'd suggest that comes under the 10% of assets due to Scotland.It comes down to what kind of armed force Scotland would require and desire.I'd guess we wouldn't require a navy as such, moreso a beefed up coast guard.
I think an independent Scotland wouldn't be getting involved in the likes of Afghanistan and be like Sweden or Finland.
And after a wee look, we'd still be part of the commonwealth, so any Scottish soldier still wanting to serve The UK would still be allowed, much like kiwis,Canadians or Aussies.

 

[NWJocko]

Excludes as all proceeds go directly to Westminster.

The armed forces are a tricky one, but I'd suggest that comes under the 10% of assets due to Scotland.It comes down to what kind of armed force Scotland would require and desire.I'd guess we wouldn't require a navy as such, moreso a beefed up coast guard.
I think an independent Scotland wouldn't be getting involved in the likes of Afghanistan and be like Sweden or Finland.
And after a wee look, we'd still be part of the commonwealth, so any Scottish soldier still wanting to serve The UK would still be allowed, much like kiwis,Canadians or Aussies.

I think you're right about the forces and the requirements although I haven't seen/can't find much of a debate about that at the moment.

One other question on the surplus/deficit numbers..... Does the £3.5bn surplus take into account any of the bail out money for "Scottish" banks? I know banks are more global these days but not sure if a share of the bail out money has been apportioned when calculating the surplus?

Interesting points adidassler and has certainly made me think more about it and also kicked me into gear to understand it all a bit more.

My gut feel remains that it is a bad thing but I would need to look at the numbers myself as I presume these are stats generated by the SNP as part of the debate?

 

[Bikky73]

Stats, love them, they are my job after all!

Out of genuine interest, does the £3.5bn surplus for Scotland include or exclude the Oil and Gas?

The point about Trident is fair to a point, albeit I assume Scotland would need to have some form of armed forces? What are the start up costs for that (if you know, I see you mentioned the forces was a bit of an unknown earlier in the thread)?

They've already got their armed forces..... They're called out of work Glaswegians

BTW, I'm not dissing Scotland, I love the place, and if you do get free'd and are owed 10% of England, want to take the North East as that 10%?