Scotland Independance vote

[Hobbit]

As I said above, if this is a NET figure i.e. the amount going OUT to Scotland and the Government has no additional INs from Scotland... just let us go! Why fight to keep a country that is costing money??

I don't think there should be a fight either way. I'd like to think it would be a straightforward question put to the people. "Do you want total independance or not?" The half a$$ed half in, half out devolution is just rolax. Are you in the club or not? Anything else just leads to the sniping and conflict we've seen since devolved parliaments came about.

I honestly can't see why there is a debate about currencies, or transfer of assets etc. As seperate countries, just like the UK and France, what's inside each other's borders belongs to that country. But equally, a proportion of the UK's debt belongs to Scotland, i.e. just like a divorce.

 

[USER1999]

The debate about currency is quite important in my view. There needs to be a difference, or the economic performance of one of the two states can bring down the other one, as has been proved by the recent Euro experience.
One would effectively have to single handedly bail out the other, in order to save their own economies.

The Scots can have RBS back as well. And pay back the bail out.

 

[thecraw]

The debate about currency is quite important in my view. There needs to be a difference, or the economic performance of one of the two states can bring down the other one, as has been proved by the recent Euro experience.
One would effectively have to single handedly bail out the other, in order to save their own economies.

The Scots can have RBS back as well. And pay back the bail out.

In that case can we get our taxes back for the Northern Rock bail out, can we also get our taxes back for failed buyover of HBOS by LloydsTSB which the government stepped in to secure at tax layers expense. Murph I really don't know why you appear to have such a chip on your shoulder over this.

The Sterling currency is not English. FACT.

 

[DCB]

The Sterling currency is not English. FACT.

It's named after that famous furniture emporium based near Tillicoultry, the one wee Dougie Donnely used to sing the praises of.

So it's definitely nor English, it's fae tillicoultry

 

[Dodger]

In that case can we get our taxes back for the Northern Rock bail out, can we also get our taxes back for failed buyover of HBOS by LloydsTSB which the government stepped in to secure at tax layers expense. Murph I really don't know why you appear to have such a chip on your shoulder over this.

The Sterling currency is not English. FACT.

Craw,as a wind up merchant yourself I am surprised you cannot see that Murph is at it.......after all he is a bright man so he cannot surely be that donut.....can he?!:mmm:

 

[Adi2Dassler]

The debate about currency is quite important in my view. There needs to be a difference, or the economic performance of one of the two states can bring down the other one, as has been proved by the recent Euro experience.
One would effectively have to single handedly bail out the other, in order to save their own economies.

The Scots can have RBS back as well. And pay back the bail out.

You're at the wind-up but I'll bite.

RBS employs a total of 150,000 people, not all of them will be Scottish.In fact, I reckon they employ as much (if not more) English people than Scots.The situation RBS found themselves in was not exclusively down to decisions made in Scotland either, The City of London have to accept a pretty large whack of that particular burden.

If the demand for two separate currencies was there, and the reasoning was genuine, there could be Scottish pounds and english pounds. for the first 5 years of separation, they could be linked, up until a point that the powers that be decide it's fair for both sides to split.

Scotland would have to hold a referendum on joining the euro, one that right now, stands no chance of being a postive lets join win.

 

[rosecott]

Why ever would we want to break up the UK? From all parts of the British Isles and beyond, we seem to get on OK on this forum (apart from Snelly and Craw), so let's stay together - from a Scot who has lived more than twice as long out of Scotland as in it.

 

[Hobbit]

The debate about currency is quite important in my view. There needs to be a difference, or the economic performance of one of the two states can bring down the other one, as has been proved by the recent Euro experience.
One would effectively have to single handedly bail out the other, in order to save their own economies.

The Scots can have RBS back as well. And pay back the bail out.

The Irish kept the punt, and had a one for one reciprocal agreement for many years and it worked. It might have cost £1.20 a pint in the UK and £2 a pint in Ireland at the time but your pound note was accepted in Ireland as one punt. Totally seperate economies. Why can't that happen in this instance?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

On the same lines as Hobbits post, I want to know why some people are so in favour of independance?

Is it purely for the potential financial gains?

Speaking from my point of view, not exclusively financial, no.

I'd like to be a citizen of an independent Scotland for many reason, ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous.I'd like that Scotland to not be in the Euro-zone too.I'd like to be a neutral country.Left-central neutral country with good health-care,low unemployment,strict laws on drugs, zero-tolerance to knife crime to the extent of long prison terms for those caught carrying.
Very limited armed force, but civil defence force, kinda like the TA
No nuclear arms and a rapid phasing out of nuclear power stations
Dramatic improvement in general health,especially in children
Limits on immigration until unemployment is reduced
The ability for Scotland to be represented in any sport at any meeting (I'm thinking olympics here...that's gonna mess up the football thing eventually)

All this can be achieved, but we need the ability to finance these things for ourselves.

Oil/gas
Fishing-common fishery policy is nonsense...allow this industry the ability to keep the fish they catch.
Water-it's coming, we'll be selling water sooner rather than later.
Whisky-£700M in excise each year
IT-Shining lights like RockstarNorth and the great work done by the tayside university
Heavy industry-make it make attractive for these valued workers on the clyde and rosyth for inward investment

Gain a sense of pride in being Scottish, move away from the nanny-state environment we find ourselves with dole spongers and work avoiders.

 

[lobthewedge]

Speaking from my point of view, not exclusively financial, no.

I'd like to be a citizen of an independent Scotland for many reason, ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous.I'd like that Scotland to not be in the Euro-zone too.I'd like to be a neutral country.Left-central neutral country with good health-care,low unemployment,strict laws on drugs, zero-tolerance to knife crime to the extent of long prison terms for those caught carrying.
Very limited armed force, but civil defence force, kinda like the TA
No nuclear arms and a rapid phasing out of nuclear power stations
Dramatic improvement in general health,especially in children
Limits on immigration until unemployment is reduced
The ability for Scotland to be represented in any sport at any meeting (I'm thinking olympics here...that's gonna mess up the football thing eventually)

All this can be achieved, but we need the ability to finance these things for ourselves.

Adi, I reckon thats what most of the British population would want for the UK as a whole, not just Scotland (maybe a few grumbles about the armed forces and nuclear, but thats another debate).

Why do we have to become independent to achieve this? Should we not be aspiring to these goals as part of the UK or do you not have faith in our current politicians and lawmakers to make it so?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Adi, I reckon thats what most of the British population would want for the UK as a whole, not just Scotland (maybe a few grumbles about the armed forces and nuclear, but thats another debate).

Why do we have to become independent to achieve this? Should we not be aspiring to these goals as part of the UK or do you not have faith in our current politicians and lawmakers to make it so?

It's easier the smaller the nation.I know this might go down like a lead balloon, but I genuinely believe that Scotland, taking all financial avenues into account, heavily subsidises the UK and I've yet to be shown figures that contradict my opinion.

England has the City of London and pretty healthy gas reserves off their coast, Scotland has Oil,Gas,Water,with tidal energy coming online soon.Our assets are higher, our population is lower, the ability to enact these changes would be easier for us and harder for England.

 

[Hobbit]

Gain a sense of pride in being Scottish, move away from the nanny-state environment we find ourselves with dole spongers and work avoiders.

I would hope you already have a strong sense of pride for being Scottish, and there is a lot in Scotland to be proud about. A lot of what you desire already falls under the remit of the Scottish Parliament, and I would question why some of those things haven't already happened. But maybe that question is between the electorate up there and your MP's. An awful lot of what you desire is also what the average man in the street throughout the UK desires.

Teams achieve more than individuals, and Team UK, i.e. the Union, can achieve far more if we work together to achieve the things you have mentioned. Stregth in numbers isn't a new or difficult concept but I do feel the break up of the Union would see the strength of both countries weakened in the eyes of senior politicians in Europe.

By all means go your own way if that is what you wish but I'm not sure quite what wholesale changes you'd expect to happen when the infrastructure has been in place for so long. Major changes would come at huge costs and certainly wouldn't happen overnight. Grass is greener?

 

[lobthewedge]

I would hope you already have a strong sense of pride for being Scottish, and there is a lot in Scotland to be proud about. A lot of what you desire already falls under the remit of the Scottish Parliament, and I would question why some of those things haven't already happened. But maybe that question is between the electorate up there and your MP's. An awful lot of what you desire is also what the average man in the street throughout the UK desires.

Teams achieve more than individuals, and Team UK, i.e. the Union, can achieve far more if we work together to achieve the things you have mentioned. Stregth in numbers isn't a new or difficult concept but I do feel the break up of the Union would see the strength of both countries weakened in the eyes of senior politicians in Europe.

By all means go your own way if that is what you wish but I'm not sure quite what wholesale changes you'd expect to happen when the infrastructure has been in place for so long. Major changes would come at huge costs and certainly wouldn't happen overnight. Grass is greener?

Well said Hobbit, totally agree.

Britain may not be what it used to be and we have our problems, but that union flag still commands a lot of respect around the world and opens a lot of doors for us. A luxury and security that would be squandered with a break up of the union.

 

[SocketRocket]

A lot of non Scottish investment has been put into North Sea Oil and Gas. Most of the fields lie outside a territorial 3 mile zone anyway.

I think it is questionable what an Independant Scotland could claim as soverign.

Is 'D Max' a bit like 'D Plane'