Scotland Independance vote

[USER1999]

I am not fussed either way, but any devolution has to be 100%, and not a half measure. Scotland either stands on it's own, or remains part of the union. Full financial independence only. They can't just cherry pick, as that would be just stuffing the English tax payer once again. Obviously it doesn't effect the Welsh tax payer, as there aren't any.

 

[Hobbit]

I'd say give them independance then invade.... at least it would make a good film

 

[Val]

Oooft.nice contradictions there mate!

We do generate more but it wouldn't be enough I feel hence why I said it would cost the Scottish tax payer a fortune. Contradictions? Maybe a bit

 

[Val]

I feel a poll coming on Chris

Very good, im glad you paid attention

 

[Adi2Dassler]

The point about 16/17 year olds is very astute by Salmond as people of that age tend to be more nationalistic without considering the wider implications. Therefore, I'd imagine it will boost the numbers voting in favour.

A number of my friends were all for independence when we were that age but their enthusiasm has waned somewhat over the years when they can appreciate the consequences with a more mature head.

What do you think the "right choice" is?

Obviously, now I live in England, I am out of it but I have a bad feeling about it all. I must stress that is not borne out of any research etc just a gut feeling!

The right choice? I'm probably not the right person to ask given I'm very keen on gaining independence.I can give my opinion and give figures to show that I'm not just talking keek,though.I'll chuck something up during the day, but with the caveat of understanding that I like England, my dad and my sister are English, my other sister lives in London, I go on holiday to England and think generally, it's pretty bloody good country.

As for the question on 16/17 year olds voting.I think handled correctly, it's good they have the chance to vote.Impartial opinion given in school ( hard given most modern studies teachers are left-wing and probably prone to independence) the chance to debate the pros and cons before any referendum and the opportunity to shape the nation they'll be in control of eventually.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

We do generate more but it wouldn't be enough I feel hence why I said it would cost the Scottish tax payer a fortune. Contradictions? Maybe a bit

So if our GDP is higher than the rest of The UK ( and lets assume that companies won't instantly leave an independent Scotland), and we're able to raise more money thru VAT,corporation tax,oil/gas revenues,NI contributions, I'm not sure how it could cost any tax payer a fortune.

 

[thecraw]

The right choice? I'm probably not the right person to ask given I'm very keen on gaining independence.I can give my opinion and give figures to show that I'm not just talking keek,though.I'll chuck something up during the day, but with the caveat of understanding that I like England, my dad and my sister are English, my other sister lives in London, I go on holiday to England and think generally, it's pretty bloody good country.

As for the question on 16/17 year olds voting.I think handled correctly, it's good they have the chance to vote.Impartial opinion given in school ( hard given most modern studies teachers are left-wing and probably prone to independence) the chance to debate the pros and cons before any referendum and the opportunity to shape the nation they'll be in control of eventually.

You sound like a failed politician!

Every time a Scottish independence topic comes up I can bet my last $ knowing I've got a guaranteed return that you'll be onto it like jack flash!

Do you have an alarm that activates every time a post appears or is it your spidey senses??


:sbox:

 

[Adi2Dassler]

You sound like a failed politician!

Every time a Scottish independence topic comes up I can bet my last $ knowing I've got a guaranteed return that you'll be onto it like jack flash!

Do you have an alarm that activates every time a post appears or is it your spidey senses??


:sbox:

It's a topic that interests me greatly, it's not the only topic I've commented on recently, so I'm not sure what your problem is?

You come across as a bit of a cyber-bully tbh, not that it bothers me, just an observation.

 

[thecraw]

It's a topic that interests me greatly, it's not the only topic I've commented on recently, so I'm not sure what your problem is?

You come across as a bit of a cyber-bully tbh, not that it bothers me, just an observation.

Yes.

Next.

Chips'n'cheese please!

 

[StuartD]

!

Every time a Scottish independence topic comes up I can bet my last $ knowing I've got a guaranteed return that you'll be onto it like jack flash!

Do you have an alarm that activates every time a post appears or is it your spidey senses??


:sbox:

Adi2Dassler, I too thought you would be along and have noted you as for independence, but i have always found your points (backed up with facts and figures) well worth a read. I must admit as being rather guilty of not looking into the pros/cons of it at all.

As someone who works in the defence industry the thought of indepenence does scare me from a selfish personal viewpoint regarding my job security

 

[thecraw]

Adi2Dassler, I too thought you would be along and have noted you as for independence, but i have always found your points (backed up with facts and figures) well worth a read. I must admit as being rather guilty of not looking into the pros/cons of it at all.

As someone who works in the defence industry the thought of indepenence does scare me from a selfish personal viewpoint regarding my job security

Careful, he'll be having his haggis and stovies for lunch just now. I would be inclined to agree with you Stuart that he argues his view well enough but since he took it the wrong way I'm in a huff.

Scottish independence and Scottish fitba and adi rises like the phoenix from the flames!

 

[Val]

So if our GDP is higher than the rest of The UK ( and lets assume that companies won't instantly leave an independent Scotland), and we're able to raise more money thru VAT,corporation tax,oil/gas revenues,NI contributions, I'm not sure how it could cost any tax payer a fortune.

Why wouldn't it? The only reason we could afford it currently with same tax would be going into debt, the UK need more tax from us as it is (if we are honest) to reduce the debt level of the country, the UK as a Union has as high a debt level as any. Do we want that in Scotland and risk pulling a Greece/Ireland etc.

We have a higher unemployment level per % in Scotland than in England so less taxpayers and more benefits to pay, who pays that?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Careful, he'll be having his haggis and stovies for lunch just now. I would be inclined to agree with you Stuart that he argues his view well enough but since he took it the wrong way I'm in a huff.

Scottish independence and Scottish fitba and adi rises like the phoenix from the flames!

Home made stilton and broccoli soup with tiger bread, actually

If I did take your last post the wrong way I apologise, but it's difficult to see how I could have taken it any other way.

 

[NWJocko]

Why wouldn't it? The only reason we could afford it currently with same tax would be going into debt, the UK need more tax from us as it is (if we are honest) to reduce the debt level of the country, the UK as a Union has as high a debt level as any. Do we want that in Scotland and risk pulling a Greece/Ireland etc.

We have a higher unemployment level per % in Scotland than in England so less taxpayers and more benefits to pay, who pays that?

These are good points.....

An example, perhaps, of something that hasn't been considered is the effect of the tax structure put in place by any Scottish government. If it is unnattractive for companies will they then move to England? Not a huge logistical problem for big enough corporates but a nightmare for long-term employment prospects...

Again, I must stress that I haven't really looked into it, these are just initial thoughts.

For what it's worth, I also think that the complexity of the issue should preclude 16/17 year olds to vote for this. Most of them will still be in school, without much real life experience or understanding of tax burdens, employment prospects, how government budgets affect families etc so I fail to see how they are in a position to objectively consider the issue and vote accordingly.

 

[USER1999]

When I was 18 I voted for the free beer and fags party in the local Portsmouth elections. This is what you get when you allow kids to vote.

 

[Monty_Brown]

This thread shows the dangers... Scotland gets independence, then a civil war breaks out between the clans. :mmm:

 

[StuartD]

When I was 18 I voted for the free beer and fags party in the local Portsmouth elections. This is what you get when you allow kids to vote.

I was worse. I voted Tory

 

[thecraw]

This thread shows the dangers... Scotland gets independence, then a civil war breaks out between the clans. :mmm:

Its ok I'm part of the Colquhoun clan, my ancestral home is Rossdhu House, now the clubhouse for the magnificent Loch Lomond golf club. While they're all fighting I'll be golfing and no I won't sign you on!

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Why wouldn't it? The only reason we could afford it currently with same tax would be going into debt, the UK need more tax from us as it is (if we are honest) to reduce the debt level of the country, the UK as a Union has as high a debt level as any. Do we want that in Scotland and risk pulling a Greece/Ireland etc.

We have a higher unemployment level per % in Scotland than in England so less taxpayers and more benefits to pay, who pays that?

At the minute any VAT,corporation tax,NI contributions and revenue from gas/oil goes directly to London.

We get the yearly Barnett payment in return.It's a guestimate, but lets say that Barnett=oil/gas revenue (I'm not entirely comfortable on an independent Scotland leaning soley on North Sea oil/gas, unlike many pro-indy people)

So that leaves VAT,corporation tax,NI contributions (I'm sure there are more, but lets use them as examples) These additional funds will go to the scottish parliament to increase the coffers the parliament have to use.

We will have less tax payers than the UK, but also less overheads, it's all proportional.

I do agree that unemployment is too high in Scotland, it has been for years.There is an under-class of people who seem to live their lifes on benefits.It's not that there aren't any jobs, it's that some people seem to think the jobs available are beneath them.I'd take a more Thatcher-esque view of these people and reduce benefits and make them do voluntary work within their community to earn it.*

*This opinion obviously doesn't include those genuinely unable to work.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

For what it's worth, I also think that the complexity of the issue should preclude 16/17 year olds to vote for this. Most of them will still be in school, without much real life experience or understanding of tax burdens, employment prospects, how government budgets affect families etc so I fail to see how they are in a position to objectively consider the issue and vote accordingly.

Alot of 16/17 year old also pay tax and contribute their fair share.The age thing is a bit of a dummy for me.the whole idea of independence is new to everyone, so everyone needs to be in full possession of the facts, whether your 16 or 46.