Ryder Cup Appearance Money

[AussieKB]

As I am in my 70's I remember it very clearly and I am afraid that you are misinterpreting the facts.

Seve's objection was to appearance money being paid to "visitors" playing in normal Tour events whilst similar payments could not be received by European Tour members.

He did not suggest or request money to appear in the Ryder Cup but refused to play as a means of voicing his objection.

Apart from anything else in 1981 the RC did not generate the sort of money that would have made it feasible for European players to be paid any fees.

I think we can agree to disagree.....Seve wanted paying to play, that is why he did not play, in the end Euro Tour said he was injured.

Read the link, but believe what you want.

 

[HPIMG]

Why would the players not want paying and paying well. The Ryder cup is one of the biggest golfing events and probably generates insane amounts of money so why would the most important part being the players not want a slice of the cake.

 

[Starter]

I think we can agree to disagree.....Seve wanted paying to play, that is why he did not play, in the end Euro Tour said he was injured.

Read the link, but believe what you want.

I can assure you that he didn't request payment to appear in the RC, as I say the money wasn't there for any payments to be made.

He did want to be able to receive appearance money from tournament sponsors to play in European Tour events.

This is confirmed by your original Wikipedia link which refers to appearance money in general and not to Ryder Cup appearance money which, at that time, was not feasible and, therefore, not an issue for either team.

 

[Bdill93]

Why would the players not want paying and paying well. The Ryder cup is one of the biggest golfing events and probably generates insane amounts of money so why would the most important part being the players not want a slice of the cake.

World cup is the biggest event in football - English players arent paid?

Not everything in the world should be about money, they are supporting the tour that set them up for a career of high earnings. Its giving something back and ensuring opportunities for the next generation of talent.

Proud of the Europeans stance on this - and not at all surprised on the American angle. Pathetic from them.

 

[AussieKB]

John Jacobs was largely responsible for the creation of the European Tour due to his coaching activities and contacts in so many European countries.

He served as Tournament Director-General of the European Tour from 1971 to 1975, a period which included the inaugural season of the modern tour in 1972. In 1979 and 1981 he was the non-playing captain of the European Ryder Cup team which was remembered for a dispute between Seve Ballesteros and the European Tour. Ballesteros had only played a handful of tournaments in Europe in the season leading up to the 1981 Ryder Cup because of a disagreement over appearance money. Jacobs wanted Ballesteros on his team and rang him in America. "Seve, I want you to come back to play in Europe. I can't guarantee you will get one of the two Ryder Cup places that are up for grabs – the organising committee can fill them as it sees fit – but I will be voting for you.".[14] In the end, although Ballesteros did come back and Jacobs as captain voted for him, Neil Coles and Bernhard Langer voted against his inclusion

 

[ADB]

The players have created a commercial behemoth where many corporates are benefiting - my take is as well as the players asking for some recompense (maybe charitable donation) there needs to be greater transparency about where the profits end up and how this benefits golf at large - the PGA of America and Ryder Cup Europe need to be shouting about the positives…

 

[Starter]

John Jacobs was largely responsible for the creation of the European Tour due to his coaching activities and contacts in so many European countries.

He served as Tournament Director-General of the European Tour from 1971 to 1975, a period which included the inaugural season of the modern tour in 1972. In 1979 and 1981 he was the non-playing captain of the European Ryder Cup team which was remembered for a dispute between Seve Ballesteros and the European Tour. Ballesteros had only played a handful of tournaments in Europe in the season leading up to the 1981 Ryder Cup because of a disagreement over appearance money. Jacobs wanted Ballesteros on his team and rang him in America. "Seve, I want you to come back to play in Europe. I can't guarantee you will get one of the two Ryder Cup places that are up for grabs – the organising committee can fill them as it sees fit – but I will be voting for you.".[14] In the end, although Ballesteros did come back and Jacobs as captain voted for him, Neil Coles and Bernhard Langer voted against his inclusion

All of which I was well aware of and confirms what I had said that Seve was in dispute over tournament appearance fees and not Ryder Cup.

I recall the 1981 event and having seen the quality of the equipment and accommodation provided to the European team it was clear that there wasn't anything in the pot for appearance money to be paid even if there had been the will to do so.

It wasn't until the Jacklin era that things improved for Europe and the early 90's before significant money was generated.

 

[timd77]

John Jacobs was largely responsible for the creation of the European Tour due to his coaching activities and contacts in so many European countries.

He served as Tournament Director-General of the European Tour from 1971 to 1975, a period which included the inaugural season of the modern tour in 1972. In 1979 and 1981 he was the non-playing captain of the European Ryder Cup team which was remembered for a dispute between Seve Ballesteros and the European Tour. Ballesteros had only played a handful of tournaments in Europe in the season leading up to the 1981 Ryder Cup because of a disagreement over appearance money. Jacobs wanted Ballesteros on his team and rang him in America. "Seve, I want you to come back to play in Europe. I can't guarantee you will get one of the two Ryder Cup places that are up for grabs – the organising committee can fill them as it sees fit – but I will be voting for you.".[14] In the end, although Ballesteros did come back and Jacobs as captain voted for him, Neil Coles and Bernhard Langer voted against his inclusion

You’ve basically pasted confirmation that the dispute was over appearance fees for playing the ET, not, as you say, for playing in the Ryder cup. By not playing on the ET he didn’t amass enough points to be selected, and ended up not being selected. That’s it.

 

[D-S]

I agree with players for once just not doing it for the money.

However, ticket prices for next year's Ryder Cup competition days start at USD750/day.

Someone seems to think making money out of the Ryder Cup is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Slab]

I suppose if an appearance fee is at least paid out then players can do what they like with it. A rookie player may want to keep it, while the mega rich may choose to hand it back / give to charity etc, just as Rory did with his Irish Open appearance fee a few years back (he’s not all bad)

Virtually everyone else is paid (although I seem to recall reading the volunteers pay to volunteer?)

Point is players would have the choice

 

[HPIMG]

World cup is the biggest event in football - English players arent paid?

Not everything in the world should be about money, they are supporting the tour that set them up for a career of high earnings. Its giving something back and ensuring opportunities for the next generation of talent.

Proud of the Europeans stance on this - and not at all surprised on the American angle. Pathetic from them.

I get what you’re saying I can see it from both sides. I personally don’t have a problem with anyone wanting payed for playing in the Ryder cup. I think if I was in that position I would see it as this cups making a fortune off us players so I’m wanting payed.

 

[AussieKB]

You’ve basically pasted confirmation that the dispute was over appearance fees for playing the ET, not, as you say, for playing in the Ryder cup. By not playing on the ET he didn’t amass enough points to be selected, and ended up not being selected. That’s it.

Agree it was over appearance fees, but he did want to be paid to play Ryder Cup.....UK press at the time were all over him.

Do you think he was good enough to have made that team....the Captain wanted him in, but we will give him a pass so as not to tarnish his reputation.

 

[AussieKB]

Appearance fees are a bane on golf, all you hear is we are supporting World golf, but how many will not go anywhere without being be paid.

 

[Starter]

Agree it was over appearance fees, but he did want to be paid to play Ryder Cup.....UK press at the time were all over him.

Do you think he was good enough to have made that team....the Captain wanted him in, but we will give him a pass so as not to tarnish his reputation.

The press were "all over him" for his initial refusal to be considered for selection.

At that time and using the current methods of qualification he would have been a certainty for selection.

 

[stymied]

View attachment 55879

Do we really think anyone who's played well enough to make the Ryder team is hard up for money?

Here's my American perspective.

If I were a player seeing $750 ticket price, "volunteers" being charged $350 to work the event (don't give me the bit about the cost of the swag), money flowing in from advertising deals and me being forced to endorse brands and products, I sure as *** expect to get paid. If the event was for charity or fees were nominal simply to cover costs it'd be a whole different story.

The PGA and the tours have a better PR team in place than most players (Rory apparently has a good PR team...because he has the money).

 

[BubbaP]

Is this Cantlay and Schuaffle succeeding where even Tiger didn't previously?

Not convinced that many European players, including Rory, don't have different views in private from the current PR tub thumping.
Many will recall Rory’s views from 2009 & 2010 (& yes he is allowed to change his mind)

 

[Oddsocks]

View attachment 55879

Do we really think anyone who's played well enough to make the Ryder team is hard up for money?

With an estimated nett worth of €5mil, that appearance mo why would be another 10% increase on his nett worth approximately. It’s a huge difference to the 0.3% increase on Rory’s.

 

[Mandofred]

It's just golf. If there is a ton of money floating around.....it needs to be distributed. Plenty of money in the Olympics now as well, although as usual only given for being good enough....so much for the amateur status doggerel.

 

[GB72]

My view depends on where the money goes, and I honestly do not know. If it goes back into the game and has an impact on golf at lower levels then I am all for playing for nothing. If it goes to inflate prize money at existing events and into the pockets of individuals then it may as well go to the players.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The press were "all over him" for his initial refusal to be considered for selection.

At that time and using the current methods of qualification he would have been a certainty for selection.

Re Seve's stance
It was a crazy situation.
Folk like Jonny Miller and Nicklaus were being paid to play in British/European events whilst Seve who was then based in the USA was not