Rules question ???

[knottynoonoo]

Dont know if anyone caught this or at least could explain it
During the masters it was mentioned that Cink (I think) was disqualified from a recent comp because he had signed for an incorrect score, caused by him standing in a fairway bunker and playing a shot when his ball lie outside of the hazard. Nothing wrong there. But his shot then went into a green side bunker and as I understand it his caddie raked the fairway bunker before he played the shot from the greenside bunker.Now I know the masters dragged on a bit and it was well past my bed time but if I heard right he was deemed to have been testing the bunker ?? anyone shed any light on that one..
I know Im sad but it confused me and sometimes that hurts
knottynoonoo

 

[GB72]

If you do a search, this was debated at some length on here recently. Should be able to find a number of explanations.

 

[knottynoonoo]

Hi I did have a read of these but couldnt really make heads nor tales of it , it justs seems another stupid rule to get confused over.
It would seem to me that his problem was that his ball wasnt in the first bunker ??
if it had been his caddie was ok to rake the bunker then he wouldnt have had the penalty, just seems unbelievable to me.

 

[backwoodsman]

knotty

the long & short of it is that if your next shot is to be played from a hazard, then you can do nothing that can be construed as testing the surface of that (or any other) hazard - this includes raking. The exception is that you can rake the bunker from which you played your last shot (even if your ball is still in it).

 

[Dodger]

R and A and USGA now amended the ruling so now you may rake the bunker if it is solely to clear up the mess you have made....not the wording they will have used but it is something like that. I came across the rule amendment on the r and a website yesterday,usually they do not amend rules until they are looked at again (every 2 years)but this has caused such a stir they have had to!

Backswoodman.....You cannot rake a bunker while you are still in it!

 

[viscount17]

common sense has prevailed. now for the tricky one, slow play

 

[backwoodsman]

.....You cannot rake a bunker while you are still in it!

Dodger: Beg to differ, but see exception 2 to rule 13-4

2. After making the stroke, if the ball is still in the hazard or has been
lifted from the hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard,
the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard, provided nothing is
done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. If the ball is
outside the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil
in the hazard without restriction.

 

[rgs]

This very problem confronted me on sunday(was not aware of teh R&A amendment) so i left two deep & ugly footprints in a bunker-felt very uncomfortable doing so but based on Cink's experience i had no other choice.

Glad to see the authorities have amended the rule. Heres the R&A explanation:

Rule 13-4a prohibits a player from testing the condition of the hazard in which his ball lies or a similar hazard. Yet Exception 3 to the Rule, which was introduced in 2008, allows a player to test the condition of one hazard after playing from that hazard into a similar hazard. Although Decision 13-4/0.5 lists smoothing a bunker with a rake, club or otherwise as an example of testing the condition of the hazard, the Etiquette Section of the Rules of Golf provides that “Before leaving a bunker, players should carefully fill up and smooth over all holes and footprints made by them and any nearby made by others.”

It is not the intent of Rule 13-4a to prohibit players from practicing the proper etiquette of the game when more than one bunker is involved. Therefore, when the player’s ball lies in a bunker, it would not be a breach of the Rules if the player were to smooth the sand in another bunker, provided (a) the smoothing is for the purpose of tidying up the bunker, (b) the smoothing does not breach Rule 13-2 (Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play) with respect to his next stroke and (c) there is not a reasonable possibility that the smoothing could affect a subsequent stroke by the player.

If the player were to smooth sand in the bunker in which his ball lies prior to making his first stroke in that bunker, he would be in breach of Rule 13-4a.

 

[clubchamp07]

Knotty, have no worries you arent the only one who couldn't make heads or tales of it. I asked my Pro and we called it up on his computer he was amazed about the ruling. I still can't see the harm in what Cink did but then again who are we to argue with the R&A.

Shame on you rgs for leaving 2 ugly prints in that bunker. I'm sure you could of went back after the hole and sorted it out.

Knotty there will be many a rule we wont understand or explain, thats golf. So good luck.

 

[Dodger]

.....You cannot rake a bunker while you are still in it!

Dodger: Beg to differ, but see exception 2 to rule 13-4

2. After making the stroke, if the ball is still in the hazard or has been
lifted from the hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard,
the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard, provided nothing is
done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. If the ball is
outside the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil
in the hazard without restriction.

OK But still better to rake after you have escaped espec if you play in bunkers like mine,pots with riveted faces...chances of you hitting the face and bouncing back in on 2nd attempt to escape and finding that you have improved the lie are very strong indeed!

 

[viscount17]

It is not the intent of Rule 13-4a to prohibit players from practicing the proper etiquette of the game when more than one bunker is involved. Therefore, when the player’s ball lies in a bunker, it would not be a breach of the Rules if the player were to smooth the sand in another bunker, provided (a) the smoothing is for the purpose of tidying up the bunker, (b) the smoothing does not breach Rule 13-2 (Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play) with respect to his next stroke and (c) there is not a reasonable possibility that the smoothing could affect a subsequent stroke by the player.

I take it that (c) means that if you and another player are both in the same bunker and you play first, then any effects of your play must remain in case by repairing them you improve the lie, stance etc of the second player.

I presume in such circumstances player 2 would mark and lift his ball while player 1 made his stroke but the lie in the marked area may be very different when he replaces his ball.

Complicated isn't it?