Rules query

[Rlburnside]

Could someone explain to me why this situation is a penalty.

I hit a drive into the semi rough which was a bit wet, when I proceeded to take my second shot I didn't connect right and the ball buried a few inches from where I hit. I think I've only done this twice before and that was years ago and I'm sure I can remember from then it is a penalty so I played 4 for my next shot.

I just can't understand why this is a penalty, what's the difference between this situation than having a drive plug off the fairway and being allowed a drop?

No doubt there is a reasonable explanation so will be interested to hear from the experts.

Btw this happened twice to me yesterday and it was a comp.

 

[Rlburnside]

Maybe one of the mods need to move this to the rules section

 

[Foxholer]

Doesn't seem to be a penalty to me! Unless when you 'didn't connect right' you hit it more than once.

Or (more likely imo) you THEN decided to declare it unplayable and take a (penalty) drop within 2 club lengths not nearer the hole.

Balls 'plugged in closely mown area' (ie fairway length) are covered under Rule 25-2 (Embedded Ball). It would need a Local Rule to apply for 'Plugged in the Rough' to be allowed without penalty.

 

[Rlburnside]

Doesn't seem to be a penalty to me! Unless when you 'didn't connect right' you hit it more than once.

Or (more likely imo) you THEN decided to declare it unplayable and take a (penalty) drop within 2 club lengths not nearer the hole.

Balls 'plugged in closely mown area' (ie fairway length) are covered under Rule 25-2 (Embedded Ball). It would need a Local Rule to apply for 'Plugged in the Rough' to be allowed without penalty.

I didn't hit it more than once.

I didn't declare it unplayable.

We have a local rule for balls plugged in rough.

I was told this was a penalty by more than one member of our club so never looked up the ruling myself.

Maybe they were wrong.

 

[patricks148]

I didn't hit it more than once.

I didn't declare it unplayable.

We have a local rule for balls plugged in rough.

I was told this was a penalty by more than one member of our club so never looked up the ruling myself.

Maybe they were wrong.

what was the penalty for then?

never heard of one for a shot not hit right before??? harsh

 

[Foxholer]

I didn't hit it more than once.

I didn't declare it unplayable.

We have a local rule for balls plugged in rough.

I was told this was a penalty by more than one member of our club so never looked up the ruling myself.

Maybe they were wrong.

Doh! I daftly 'missed' the 'semi' in your OP! So ignore my 'Doesn't seem...' etc in my reply! I believe i can see why the Penalty may have been required

The ruling about whether you are entitled to free relief. or whether relief is under penalty, would depend on the wording of the LR, but if it's as per the example in the Appendix, then there's certainly cause to believe that it's under penalty! This is because free relief is only available when 'it is in its own pitch-mark'. Pitch-mark isn't defined, but a ball that is simply badly struck, so embeds, wouldn't seem to qualify for as Embedded (under the Note to the LR - as per Note 1 of 25-2).

In fact, Decision 25-2/6 seems to be the equivalent of what may have happened (though probably on closely mown area).

Sorry about misleading you earlier if that is what actually happened! Was it? As in 'Did the ball ever become airborne?'

 

[Val]

It would only be a penalty if you have to declare it unplayable but as your club have a local rule covering plugged balls in the rough then I don't see why you wouldn't get a free drop

 

[Rlburnside]

Doh! I daftly 'missed' the 'semi' in your OP! So ignore my 'Doesn't seem...' etc in my reply! I believe i can see why the Penalty may have been required

The ruling about whether you are entitled to free relief. or whether relief is under penalty, would depend on the wording of the LR, but if it's as per the example in the Appendix, then there's certainly cause to believe that it's under penalty! This is because free relief is only available when 'it is in its own pitch-mark'. Pitch-mark isn't defined, but a ball that is simply badly struck, so embeds, wouldn't seem to qualify for as Embedded (under the Note to the LR - as per Note 1 of 25-2).

In fact, Decision 25-2/6 seems to be the equivalent of what may have happened (though probably on closely mown area).

Sorry about misleading you earlier if that is what actually happened! Was it? As in 'Did the ball ever become airborne?'

No the ball was certainly never airborn, thanks for your explanation I think I understand the reason why it's a penalty now ie ball wasn't it its own pitch mark but badly struck and embedded which doesn't qualify as embedded!!!

Glad I was right in calling a penalty on myself, although I think it's very harsh.

 

[Region3]

Did you play the ball from the "buried" position?

 

[Rlburnside]

Did you play the ball from the "buried" position?

Yes, dropped ball and added penalty playing my 4th shot

 

[rosecott]

Yes, dropped ball and added penalty playing my 4th shot

That's been the confusion. You didn't play the ball from the buried position as you said earlier. You declared it unplayable and took a penalty drop.

 

[Rlburnside]

That's been the confusion. You didn't play the ball from the buried position as you said earlier. You declared it unplayable and took a penalty drop.

Sorry for the confusion ,when I said I played it from buried position and dropped I assumed that it would be known that I dropped from the buried position. I didn't declare it unplayable and take a penalty, my impression was that it was embedded and why was it a penalty for this.

But as Foxholer has explained this ruling I now understand but still think it's rather unfair.

 

[Region3]

Sorry for the confusion ,when I said I played it from buried position and dropped I assumed that it would be known that I dropped from the buried position. I didn't declare it unplayable and take a penalty, my impression was that it was embedded and why was it a penalty for this.

But as Foxholer has explained this ruling I now understand but still think it's rather unfair.

There's no penalty for burying the ball, you have the option of playing it as it lies. Not a nice choice, but a choice nonetheless.

 

[Rlburnside]

There's no penalty for burying the ball, you have the option of playing it as it lies. Not a nice choice, but a choice nonetheless.

I know there is no penalty for burying the ball, it made me smile of the option of playing it as it lies it wasn't a choice as it was buried about 4 inches into the ground


I knew it was a penalty and proceeded in the correct way, but I was just asking why it is a penalty as it seemed unfair to me.

As Foxholer has explained why it is a penalty in the future if this happens I will look at it as not a ball ' embedded ' but a unplayable ball .

 

[clubchamp98]

I know there is no penalty for burying the ball, it made me smile of the option of playing it as it lies it wasn't a choice as it was buried about 4 inches into the ground


I knew it was a penalty and proceeded in the correct way, but I was just asking why it is a penalty as it seemed unfair to me.

As Foxholer has explained why it is a penalty in the future if this happens I will look at it as not a ball ' embedded ' but a unplayable ball .

cant see why it's a penalty!
If you hit it 300yds or 6" what's the difference the ball is still embedded in the ground.

as soon as the ball leaves the club face it's a shot so can't see why it's not the same as any other shot.

Its no wonder we have so much head scratching over rules.

If the ball is underground you can hurt yourself .

 

[Rlburnside]

cant see why it's a penalty!
If you hit it 300yds or 6" what's the difference the ball is still embedded in the ground.

as soon as the ball leaves the club face it's a shot so can't see why it's not the same as any other shot.

Its no wonder we have so much head scratching over rules.

If the ball is underground you can hurt yourself .

You couldn't hurt yourself with my ball it was that far down I couldn't see it

Agree with the head scratching took me awhile to get my head around this rule.

Thing is although the ball was embedded and with a local rule you get a free drop for embedded ball this embedded ball wasn't eligible for a free drop, well that's cleared that up :thup:

 

[clubchamp98]

You couldn't hurt yourself with my ball it was that far down I couldn't see it

Agree with the head scratching took me awhile to get my head around this rule.

Thing is although the ball was embedded and with a local rule you get a free drop for embedded ball this embedded ball wasn't eligible for a free drop, well that's cleared that up :thup:

Has it ?
Embedded ball is any ball embedded in the soft earth.
It doesn't say how it has to get there so can't see the difference.
As for getting airborne what's the difference a putt is a stroke/ shot that doesn't get airborne.

 

[Rlburnside]

Has it ?
Embedded ball is any ball embedded in the soft earth.
It doesn't say how it has to get there so can't see the difference.
As for getting airborne what's the difference a putt is a stroke/ shot that doesn't get airborne.

Sorry I was being ironic,

As Foxholer pointed out you only free relief if the ball embeds in its own pitch mark, as I put the ball 6 foot under this embedded ball wasn't in its own pitch mark so no free drop.

Thats the way I understood it anyway.

 

[Val]

Sorry I was being ironic,

As Foxholer pointed out you only free relief if the ball embeds in its own pitch mark, as I put the ball 6 foot under this embedded ball wasn't in its own pitch mark so no free drop.

Thats the way I understood it anyway.

Why is it not embedded in its own pitch mark though? What's the difference between it coming down from high and embedding or embedding from a matter of inches?

Genuine question btw

 

[HDID Kenny]

Why is it not embedded in its own pitch mark though? What's the difference between it coming down from high and embedding or embedding from a matter of inches?

Genuine question btw

It would appear to suggest a 'flighted ball' can embed itself by landing in abnormal soft conditions (reason for LR in the 1st place). However a ball 'driven' into the ground by a poor strike doesn't qualify even although this would not happen under normal ground conditions. Does seem harsh.