Rules Please !

[Leep11]

Hello everyone,

I am a regular reader of the forum and have decided to take the plunge and join the debate !

For my first question I wonder if I could throw some rules questions out to the forum which I would like clarification on.

1. Golfer 1 mentioned in a previous post about having to take a penalty drop from a flooded bunker? Could someone explain this as I alsways thought you could take a free drop. Is this when the entire bunker is flooded and you have to drop elsewhere?

2 Recently in a comp, my playing partner took a couple of practice putting strokes and accidently caught the ball with the toe of his club. The ball veered of about 10 ft at a right angle. My playing partner said that as he hadn't addressed the ball he was entitled to pull it back. Is this correct ?

3. Last year in a comp my ball got stuck up a tree. I was able to identify it ok, however, I couldn't physically reach it. What is the ruling in this scenario?

Many Thanks

 

[minty18]

Hello mate, welcome to the forum.

I'm lead to believe 1. is correct, if the bunker is flooded you have to drop it out at a one stroke penalty.

2. i believe is correct as well, if you haven't addressed the ball and accidently hit it you can replace it with out a penalty. I think this rule changes depending on what comp format you are playing.

3. How on earth did you manage that? i would have been rolling around the floor watching you jumping up to try and get your ball down.

I do love this game.

 

[GB72]

Hi Leep11, welcome on board.

I am no expert and cannot help on points 2 and 3 but have some idea on point 1. Believe that you can take a drop with no penalty as long as you can drop within the bunker and not nearer the hole. If you have to drop outside of the bunker then you take a penalty stroke.

 

[Wildrover]

Hi Leep11

Point 2 came up at my club a few weeks ago when someone did the same thing. After much arguing we consulted the good book and came to the conclusion that it is a penalty as it is you that have caused the ball to move, regardless of whether you have addressed it or not. The confusion comes from if the ball moves on it's own through wind or whatever, and you haven't addressed it (grounded the club behind the ball) then there is no penalty.

 

[birdieman]

No.1 - GB72 is correct on this - if the bunker is full of water and the course has not been declared unplayable then treat it as a water hazard so if you don't fancy a Van de Velde and you do not want to get your feet wet you take a drop under penalty of one stroke anywhere back from the hazard keeping a line between the flag and where your ball lies.
If you can find a bare bit of sand in the bunker not nearer hole then drop there with no penalty. Use your head though - a penalty drop onto the fairway might be the best decision rather than say a downslope in a bunker on wet sand!!

No.2 - Incorrect, it counts as a shot and you play the ball from where it ends up 10 feet away.
Your pal has maybe confused it with if you address the ball on the tee and the ball falls off then replace it, no penalty.
When you are not on the tee if you address the ball and it moves off it's original positon, even a fraction, it is a penalty shot unless the ball moves back into it's original position.

No.3 - You declare the ball unplayable and take relief via the usual choice of 3 ways - back to where you played your last shot, line back from flag or 2 clublenghts not nearer hole. The ball position to take relief from is directly under where the ball is in the tree.

That's my take on it, happy to be corrected.

 

[Leftie]

No.1
If you can find a bare bit of sand in the bunker not nearer hole then drop there with no penalty. Use your head though - a penalty drop onto the fairway might be the best decision rather than say a downslope in a bunker on wet sand!!

Not 100% sure if you have the option of choosing whether to drop in the bunker or, if you don't like the look of the dropping point, out of it under penalty. Is it not a case of if there is a suitable dropping point in the bunker then the ball must be dropped there??

 

[SammmeBee]

No.2 - Incorrect, it counts as a shot and you play the ball from where it ends up 10 feet away.
Your pal has maybe confused it with if you address the ball on the tee and the ball falls off then replace it, no penalty.
When you are not on the tee if you address the ball and it moves off it's original positon, even a fraction, it is a penalty shot unless the ball moves back into it's original position.

Rule 18-2

a. General
When a player’s ball is in play, if:
(i) the player, his partner or either of their caddies lifts or moves it, touches it purposely (except with a club in the act of addressing it) or causes it to move except as permitted by a Rule, or
(ii) equipment of the player or his partner causes the ball to move, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke. If the ball is moved, it must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

 

[minty18]

well if there is some dry sand but it is right at the lip you can declare it unplayable and drop it out with a stroke penalty.

As far as i'm aware you can declare any shot unplayable even if its in the middle of the fairway.

 

[SammmeBee]

well if there is some dry sand but it is right at the lip you can declare it unplayable and drop it out with a stroke penalty.

As far as i'm aware you can declare any shot unplayable even if its in the middle of the fairway.

Indeed Sir......

 

[theeaglehunter]

I know that you can declare any ball unplayable minty, its to the players disgression so if you don't want to play it you can declare it unplayable under penalty of 1 stroke regardless of its situation.

 

[birdieman]

No.1
If you can find a bare bit of sand in the bunker not nearer hole then drop there with no penalty. Use your head though - a penalty drop onto the fairway might be the best decision rather than say a downslope in a bunker on wet sand!!

Not 100% sure if you have the option of choosing whether to drop in the bunker or, if you don't like the look of the dropping point, out of it under penalty. Is it not a case of if there is a suitable dropping point in the bunker then the ball must be dropped there??

Rule 28 ball unplayable.
-The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.

You can opt to lift from a bunker under penalty if you wish.

 

[Leftie]

A) well if there is some dry sand but it is right at the lip you can declare it unplayable and drop it out with a stroke penalty.

B) As far as i'm aware you can declare any shot unplayable even if its in the middle of the fairway.

B) True, anywhere on the course except when the ball is in a water hazard (not water in a bunker)

A) With my bunker play, I wish that were true. If you deem the ball unplayable in a bunker then you can .....
1) Go back and play the ball from as near as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played
2) Drop behind the spot where the ball lay in the bunker as far back as you like on the line of the spot and the hole
3) Drop within 2 club lengths not nearer the hole.

BUT, if you choose options 2 or 3, then the ball MUST be dropped in the bunker.

Regarding declaring a ball unplayable I would refer the honourable gentleman to Rule 28

For relief from casual water in a bunker see Rule 25-1, b,(ii)

 

[minty18]

I do hate that rule about the water in the bunker!

I was hitting the ball terrible off the tee on one round. The one ball I creamed off the tee sailed straight in to the bunker bang in the middle of the fairway.... full of water.

When someone explained that I had to take a drop with a one shot penalty i was gutted, ruined the rest of my round because i didnt believe such a stupid rule had been made. Punishment to the golfer for poor drainage.

But over time i've learnt to deal with hit, you know the hazard is there and its the same rules for everyone so now i just steer clear from the bunker.

 

[backwoodsman]

No.1 If bunker completely full of water, you have exactly the same options as if it only had a puddle of water in it. You can play it as it lies (not a lot of use), you can drop it within the bunker at nearest point of relief (there isn't one, so tough), you can drop outside the bunker on a line from the hole under penalty of one stroke (this the only feasible option). One of those cases where the rule doesn't offer any help I'm afraid. (and as point of order the bunker is not classed as a water hazard - it's just a bunker full of water...)

No.2 Have to replace the ball under penalty of one stroke. There would not be a penalty if it got moved in the act of addressing the ball, but I'm pretty sure a practice swing would not count as addressing the ball.

No3. Play it as it lies (tricky) or declare it unplayable and take any of the usual unplayable options; ie play from where previous shot was played, drop on a line from hole, or drop within two club lengths (from the point directly under the ball)

Have mentioned before - the Decisions on the Rules of Golf is a really useful book to have........

 

[birdieman]

Backwoodsman, your answer to no.2 isn't quite right. The 'replace ball under penalty of one shot' part is correct but if the ball moves when you address it (except on the tee as the ball isn't officially in play on the tee) anywhere between teeing off and holing out it is a penalty stroke UNLESS the ball returns to it's original position, so even if it moves 1mm and doesn't move back it's a penalty shot.