Rule 14-2b Assistance!

[TheJezster]

What seems to happen on the pro tours is that players amble down the fairway without apparently giving any thought to how and with what club they are going to play their next shot. When they get there, there is a five minute discussion with their caddies, during which time time yardages are paced out and much grass is thrown into the air to gauge the wind speed and direction. Eventually a consensus is reached as to which club is to be used. Then a number of practice swings followed by the lining up and the getting off the line ritual by the caddie. There are a few exceptions, such as Colin Montgomerie and John Daly, who seem to like to get a move on, but they get held up by all the others in front of them. As to lining up itself, as an amateur club golfer I hardly ever play with a caddie, so I have to line myself up. Why can't this be the same for the pros?

It's not our living. It is theirs. What about that can you not understand? Saying that though, from your post it is clear that you have never watched live golf, or if you have you are on the windup deliberately using provocative words like "amble". The plays dont AMBLE down the fairway, they practically RUN! I had the good fortune to go to Walton Heath last year and watch the US Open qualifiers. I followed Paul Casey and Cabello-Bello round in the afternoon abd they were almost sprinting up the fairway to their balls. This was the thing that struck me, they are NOT SLOW around the course. Yes there obviously are a few players who are slow, but lets not lump all player in that bracket eih? Let's try to be sensible shall we? THink you can do that from now on?

Its the minority we need to clamp down on, and I hope the game does this, we all know who is slower than most, so lets see something done about it. A caddy helping his boss line up a put does not contribute to this. At all.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Interesting point Jezster. I think they played 36 at WH that day? Wonder if they were under orders to get round quickly to fit it in. Pro golf can be slow but that they can play quickly when they want to.

 

[MadAdey]

Not another rule change request????
Do you ever write to the R&A about these, or just moan about them on golf forums?
Even Victor Meldrew didn't moan as much!

Well said

LOL :thup:

 

[delc]

It's not our living. It is theirs. What about that can you not understand? Saying that though, from your post it is clear that you have never watched live golf, or if you have you are on the windup deliberately using provocative words like "amble". The plays dont AMBLE down the fairway, they practically RUN! I had the good fortune to go to Walton Heath last year and watch the US Open qualifiers. I followed Paul Casey and Cabello-Bello round in the afternoon abd they were almost sprinting up the fairway to their balls. This was the thing that struck me, they are NOT SLOW around the course. Yes there obviously are a few players who are slow, but lets not lump all player in that bracket eih? Let's try to be sensible shall we? THink you can do that from now on?

Its the minority we need to clamp down on, and I hope the game does this, we all know who is slower than most, so lets see something done about it. A caddy helping his boss line up a put does not contribute to this. At all.

If there are no slow players, how come that some tournament rounds can take over 5 hours? Watching pro golf on TV is getting rather like watching paint dry, particularly on the US PGA tour. More a test of stamina and patience than shot making ability! You can go out for an hour and find that a particular group of players have only completed three holes in that time! Worst of all is that some younger club members seem to believe that that is the way golf should be played, so that golf at amateur club level is getting slower and slower! On the rare occasions when the course is pretty empty, three of us (all seniors) can get round 18 holes in less than three-and-a-half hours. Yesterday (weekend) it took over 2 1/2 hours just to play 9 holes!

P.S. I usually go to watch the BMW at Wentworth, a seniors tour event and a LET tournament every year. I have never seen any of the players coming even close to hurrying between shots!

 

[TheJezster]

If there are no slow players, how come that some tournament rounds can take over 5 hours? Watching pro golf on TV is getting rather like watching paint dry, particularly on the US PGA tour. More a test of stamina and patience than shot making ability! You can go out for an hour and find that a particular group of players have only completed three holes in that time! Worst of all is that some younger club members seem to believe that that is the way golf should be played, so that golf at amateur club level is getting slower and slower! On the rare occasions when the course is pretty empty, three of us (all seniors) can get round 18 holes in less than three-and-a-half hours. Yesterday (weekend) it took over 2 1/2 hours just to play 9 holes!

P.S. I usually go to watch the BMW at Wentworth, a seniors tour event and a LET tournament every year. I have never seen any of the players coming even close to hurrying between shots!

Dear God, so even when someone pulls you up about the nature of your posts, you ignore that and make something up, insinuating they said something else entirely???

I highlight your first part, in red, to illustrate my point. I shan't bother reading your posts again I dont think, because it's clear you dont read what is written to you, or if you do you ignore it and just make stuff up. I cant abide that behavior, either debate properly or just dont bother. To be clear, nowhere did I say We dont have slow players. Read my post again, but dont bother replying because I wont respond after that. It's just not worth it. It's like talking to a kid who isnt mature enough yet to have an adult conversation.

 

[Allanxyz]

I'm roughly in agreement here... Professional golf takes too long as far as I'm concerned. I understand you can't blame them as it's their living and they take the time allowed in order to make sure things are right because there is a lot of money involved. This is where the rules makers have to come in. Either tighten up the rules or enforce those that exist a bit more rigorously regarding time allowed.

The reason these guys can earn a living from golf is due to the public watching them.... If viewers turn off then they earn less money. I'm not sure if it's a big issue for the majority and with TV you can edit a lot of the faffing around out... But to me it is clear that youngsters are influences by what they see their heroes doing and if this means lining up a put from 5 different angles I don't think it's a good thing.

as for caddies lining players up... Not sure it is a massive issue, at least in the men's game, but I would ban it...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm amazed Delc actually plays golf with the amount of rules he wants changed - must hate the game

 

[MadAdey]

I'm amazed Delc actually plays golf with the amount of rules he wants changed - must hate the game

Reminds me of the sort of bloke that spends his RAF career doing nothing but manning about his job, yet still stays until the day he has to leave.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Reminds me of the sort of bloke that spends his RAF career doing nothing but manning about his job, yet still stays until the day he has to leave.

There are plenty of those

 

[delc]

I'm roughly in agreement here... Professional golf takes too long as far as I'm concerned. I understand you can't blame them as it's their living and they take the time allowed in order to make sure things are right because there is a lot of money involved. This is where the rules makers have to come in. Either tighten up the rules or enforce those that exist a bit more rigorously regarding time allowed.

The reason these guys can earn a living from golf is due to the public watching them.... If viewers turn off then they earn less money. I'm not sure if it's a big issue for the majority and with TV you can edit a lot of the faffing around out... But to me it is clear that youngsters are influences by what they see their heroes doing and if this means lining up a put from 5 different angles I don't think it's a good thing.

as for caddies lining players up... Not sure it is a massive issue, at least in the men's game, but I would ban it...

I'm glad that somebody agrees with me. Just one point: How do you edit out slow play during live coverage? Possible for edited recorded highlights obviously. The caddies lining up the players mainly seems to be an issue on the Ladies tours. Don't know if lady golfers are actually genetically inferior at lining up or not, but it wastes a few seconds on every shot. I personally find it annoying and I believe I am not the only one. Several TV commentators have also said they don't like it!

 

[Imurg]

As a Player and his/her Caddy are a team there is nothing in the Rules to prevent the Caddy helping to line up the shot...


BUT....

In my opinion, you're a poor Professional Golfer if you need someone else to make sure you're aligned properly............

 

[delc]

I'm amazed Delc actually plays golf with the amount of rules he wants changed - must hate the game

I play golf about 5 times a week. Enjoy being outdoors, the scenery, the company, hitting the very occasional perfect golf shot and the challenge, but I don't like some of the rules. Same applies to Rory McIlroy I hear, after getting a 2-stroke penalty for standing on a white line!

 

[Allanxyz]

I'm glad that somebody agrees with me. Just one point: How do you edit out slow play during live coverage? Possible for edited recorded highlights obviously. The caddies lining up the players mainly seems to be an issue on the Ladies tours. Don't know if lady golfers are actually genetically inferior at lining up or not, but it wastes a few seconds on every shot. I personally find it annoying and I believe I am not the only one. Several TV commentators have also said they don't like it!

Guess it's tricky, but they should maybe cut to the player as they are about to take the shot rather than the two minutes beforehand of discussions, grass throwing and consulting with the caddy. Guess it's a balance as you need give the commentators enough time to say a few things about the shot. Think it mostly works like this currently...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I play golf about 5 times a week. Enjoy being outdoors, the scenery, the company, hitting the very occasional perfect golf shot and the challenge, but I don't like some of the rules. Same applies to Rory McIlroy I hear, after getting a 2-stroke penalty for standing on a white line!

Blimey - didn't realise. :smirk:

 

[d2cko]

I'm glad that somebody agrees with me. Just one point: How do you edit out slow play during live coverage? Possible for edited recorded highlights obviously. The caddies lining up the players mainly seems to be an issue on the Ladies tours. Don't know if lady golfers are actually genetically inferior at lining up or not, but it wastes a few seconds on every shot. I personally find it annoying and I believe I am not the only one. Several TV commentators have also said they don't like it!

I agree too to be fair. Discussing a line and getting your caddy to have a look for you is one thing. Standing behind you and saying 'left a bit, a bit more, that'll do' seems like too much to me. You aren't allowed alignment canes during play so why are you allowed somebody telling you you're off line?

I think calling them genetically inferior though is a bit harsh. I thought we were past sexism in golf these days?

 

[MadAdey]

I think the question here is this.........

if you could have someone stand behind you and make sure you had lined up perfect on every shot, would you?

 

[delc]

I agree too to be fair. Discussing a line and getting your caddy to have a look for you is one thing. Standing behind you and saying 'left a bit, a bit more, that'll do' seems like too much to me. You aren't allowed alignment canes during play so why are you allowed somebody telling you you're off line?

I think calling them genetically inferior though is a bit harsh. I thought we were past sexism in golf these days?

I had no intention of being sexist, just commenting that caddies lining up their players from behind the line of play seems to be more prevalent on the Ladies Golf Tours than the Mens, although some male golfers also get their caddies to check their alignment before hitting a shot.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think the question here is this.........

if you could have someone stand behind you and make sure you had lined up perfect on every shot, would you?

I wouldn't - don't even like people helping me out with my line ( in fourball BB for example )

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I had no intention of being sexist, just commenting that caddies lining up their players from behind the line of play seems to be more prevalent on the Ladies Golf Tours than the Mens, although some male golfers also get their caddies to check their alignment before hitting a shot.

You do realise it's not all ladies and only a small percentage - watch the Solheim Cup and can't remember anyone doing it but I know a few of the Asian ladies do. But it's not against the rules so well within their rights

 

[delc]

I think the question here is this.........

if you could have someone stand behind you and make sure you had lined up perfect on every shot, would you?

I think the question is "Should the rules allow caddies or playing partners to be able to do this?"