Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Exactly, loads of positives for Borthwick going forward. At least it will shut up the "get Farrell" shouters.
Crow
Crow Person
Haven't followed much of this year's play but I was just looking at the final table and was struck by the bonus points column.
It's got to be a questionable system where a team that didn't win one game gets 4 bonus points?
That's as many as the team that won, and more than the second and third places combined.
It's got to be a questionable system where a team that didn't win one game gets 4 bonus points?
That's as many as the team that won, and more than the second and third places combined.
HeftyHacker
Well-known member
Haven't followed much of this year's play but I was just looking at the final table and was struck by the bonus points column.
It's got to be a questionable system where a team that didn't win one game gets 4 bonus points?
That's as many as the team that won, and more than the second and third places combined.
I think it was initially brought in with the idea of primarily separating the top two teams in years where often 2 teams would win 4 games each so would need a clearer way of determining a champion.
I like the bonus points as it can make the end of games more exciting when a team is comfortably winning but chasing a try bonus point. Or when teams are losing but trying to pkay positively in the hope of getting a losing or try bonus point (or even both).
Usually if a team is getting a losing AND a try bonus point it means it has been a pretty exciting game (close and with plenty of tries).
Edit: on Wales getting 4 BPs it sums them up as a team really, gritty and never really on the end of a pasting but not good enough to win anything at the moment.
Edit edit: it must be noted that winning a grand slam gets you another 5 bonus points (I think) to avoid a scenario in which a team wins a grandslam but it beaten by another team who has managed to accrue more points through the BPs.
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Crow
Crow Person
Thanks, so I guess it's a variation on "growing the game".
Otherwise known as a gimmick
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
It was a strange day for me to see Wales, Scotland and England all losing, but losing to a better team on the day.
Why would you see that as strange? I'm not sure any of those results were particular surprises. There was a wafer between England and France, not sure one team was actually better than the other in reality, but France have largely underperformed and have a top performance in them.
Captainron
Big Hitting, South African Sweary Person
So. Are you England fans a bit more optimistic about the team now?
You have the All Blacks series in a couple of months to look forward to.
You have the All Blacks series in a couple of months to look forward to.
We have to be. For the last 18 months/ 2 years we have been slow, predictable, uninspiring. Yes, they could pull out performances, see world cup, but it was very limited. The last few games in this tournament have shown real attacking intent, some exciting players.
They aren't suddenly world beaters but for the first time in a while the graph is showing an upward curve.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
It was strange for me in that the three teams I would have preferred to win all lost. Just not used to seeing that happen over the years.
There was a lot more than a wafer between France and England when the score was 16 - 3.
England did very well to make a game of it.
Wales game was similar. Fought back well, but not enough.
All three score lines were close at the end, but it was clear to me who the better sides were on the day.
When England scored 3 tries on the bounce did there seem like a lot in it? France won with a kick from the half way line with 1 minute to go. That's it, nothing more. If you think that's clear then you have a different definition to me.
Captainron
Big Hitting, South African Sweary Person
Did someone say win a game with a must make kick???
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Yes, I do.
I can assess the difference in the two teams from overall play from the whole game.
It was the same for Wales scoring three tries, but losing to two penalty kicks from near the halfway line in the second half.
Not much difference in the final score, but over the whole game I saw a significant difference in performance in both games between the winning and losing teams.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
I was never anything but. Transition from a decayed coach to new idea's and thoughts take time, as does new younger players and picking players on their form and not your favourites or dogma helps.
This is probably the first 6 Nations I have seen England tackling hard and with intensity since the days of Woodward, and that bodes well going forward.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Don’t forget England gifted France two tries from poor line outs.
Whereditgo
Journeyman Pro
And the last one still needed a very fortunate result from a hack forward.
spongebob59
Journeyman Pro
How was that deliberate knock on in the second half not reviewed?
Definitely a pen and possibly a yellow or penalty try.
The were quick to jump on Freeman when he did something similar later on.
Funny how those french TV angles go missing
Definitely a pen and possibly a yellow or penalty try.
The were quick to jump on Freeman when he did something similar later on.
Funny how those french TV angles go missing
GB72
Money List Winner
The French TV are renowned for it. Angles to missing, footage is not shown on replays so nobody can comment on it etc. Also, if it suits them to have a break in the game, the footage can take a lot longer to find.
GB72
Money List Winner
Still despite all that, cannot complain, great game of rugby, the team who deserved it most won the title, there were plenty of good games to watch, Italy showed they can be a real handful, England are showing some green shoots oh, and Wales got a wooden spoon (even by the technical definition whereby the wooden spoon is the losing equivalent of a grand slam and is only awarded for losing all of the matches).
Not sure how Wales get out of this, current crop of players are not good enough and the performances in the Under 20 championship does not show a promising generation coming through.
On the subject of the U20s world cup, what a game from England against France. Getting hammered at half time then turn it around to get a bonus point win and secure the title.
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