Mungoscorner
Journeyman Pro
Go to 05.50 in the vid,the young girl explains all about TV Credit.
"Root Cause"
- Thread starter NWJocko
- Start date
Go to 05.50 in the vid,the young girl explains all about TV Credit.
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
I must be missing the point. When someone says 'poverty' I expect to see abject poverty i.e no food, no TV, clothes that are clearly hand-me-downs and a parent working all the hours God sends to make ends meet.
What I don't expect to see is an unemployed parent, a plasma TV and a top of the range games console. He was playing a game on the PS3 - how much are they? £40?
This isn't poverty - it's just a poor family. My parents came from just such a family. My Wife came from just such a family.
RichardC
Tour Rookie
Mine too.
I was 14 years old and wanted a pair of Nike Air Jordans which at the time cost £70. My mum told me that she could not afford them, so I went and got a job in East St Market and worked all day Saturday and Sundays for £10 a day.
Mungoscorner
Journeyman Pro
So,if the father of this family managed to find a job,all there money worries would be over ?
Tiger
Money List Winner
Poverty definitions are based on typical living standards, so no an example of 'poverty' in the UK is not consistent with perceptions of Third World poverty. An usual indicator of such poverty is where household income is 60% below the median income level for the country. Median is different to mean in that rather than being an average salary it is the middle salary of workers in the UK i.e. if you stood nine people in a row the median height would be the height of the 5th person whereas the mean would be the average height of all nine.
Based on this 22% of the country live below the poverty line. This study by the institute of fiscal studies shows how rising inflation has hit lower income families harder.
http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5605
The institute for Fiscal Studies or Office for National Statistics are good places to go for a wider understanding of economic issues.
Those who are saying that surely the risk of poverty was greater in the past are correct, however there are historical factors that prevented issues of resentment. The Second World War and the rationing that followed galvanised British community spirit and 'normalised' tough living conditions. It built a resilience within the young, however those young people are now grandparents and the current generation are the sons and daughters of Thatcher's children with large numbers losing their livlihood, income and hope in the early 80's. That history is being repeated now is dangerous in the context that we are at risk of another generation being unemployed at the crucial development stages of their lives. Statistics show that long term unemployment at a young age can have a detrimental impact on an individuals long term economic contribution.
That is why the government is investing significant amounts of money in programmes like the DfE Improving Outcomes programme to tackle the issue of youth unemployment. Currently, 20% of young people aged 16-25 that are available to work are unemployed - that is almost 1 million young people who are losing hope every day.
Based on this 22% of the country live below the poverty line. This study by the institute of fiscal studies shows how rising inflation has hit lower income families harder.
http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5605
The institute for Fiscal Studies or Office for National Statistics are good places to go for a wider understanding of economic issues.
Those who are saying that surely the risk of poverty was greater in the past are correct, however there are historical factors that prevented issues of resentment. The Second World War and the rationing that followed galvanised British community spirit and 'normalised' tough living conditions. It built a resilience within the young, however those young people are now grandparents and the current generation are the sons and daughters of Thatcher's children with large numbers losing their livlihood, income and hope in the early 80's. That history is being repeated now is dangerous in the context that we are at risk of another generation being unemployed at the crucial development stages of their lives. Statistics show that long term unemployment at a young age can have a detrimental impact on an individuals long term economic contribution.
That is why the government is investing significant amounts of money in programmes like the DfE Improving Outcomes programme to tackle the issue of youth unemployment. Currently, 20% of young people aged 16-25 that are available to work are unemployed - that is almost 1 million young people who are losing hope every day.
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
Minimum wage is £5.93.
If he works 9-5 everyday then that's 35 hours x £5.93 which is £207.55 a week. That's almost £11,000 a year.
He'll get loads of benefits as he's below the levels required.
Granted, they've not won the lottery but they'd be better off.
toonarmy
Q-School Graduate
I have worked in Rwanda and Burundi and if I hear one more woolly-liberal beatnik talk about impoverishment, lack of opportunities, social conditioning or hard lives as any justification for what has happened I swear I will pop.
Go and walk around Bujumbura or Kigali (other national capitals) and try and tell me that more than 0.1% of our population could even begin to compare lifestyles.
The attitude of people in this country makes me sick to the stomach at times.
We are all responsible for our own actions.
Deal with it.
Go and walk around Bujumbura or Kigali (other national capitals) and try and tell me that more than 0.1% of our population could even begin to compare lifestyles.
The attitude of people in this country makes me sick to the stomach at times.
We are all responsible for our own actions.
Deal with it.
Tiger
Money List Winner
I'd also add that poor life management skills means that people below the 'poverty' line often get themselves into debt living beyond their means and causing further family problems down the lines. Debt has strong correlation to alcohol and drug misuse / poor diet / depression all of which place an additional strain on the health service. Those that turn to crime populate prisons and increase policing costs. I'm not condoning these life choices but simply asking is there more we can do for example through better community cohesion or improved educationsystem to prevent these things happening? It will save us all money in the long term and make the country a better place to live.
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
I believe the national average wage is £19,000. It's quite possible for the median income level to be above that. So you're saying that if the median income level is £21,000 then all those living below that are in poverty?
That cannot be right.
I find it very had to believe that poverty exists in this country - excuses, however, do.
Quote of the week.
Tiger,take a read.
Tiger
Money List Winner
I hear what you are saying but in isolation they won't deal with it that's the problem I agree that sending a lot of underprivileged British youngsters to third world countries would massively open their eyes'
90% of the Scottish Borders are in poverty then....expect riots in Duns when they realise this.
RichardC
Tour Rookie
Some of these families that suffer from these poor life choices are what cause communities to fall apart, as they are the one's with ASBO's (not all I might add). Years ago neighbours would give you a clip round the ear if you played up, or took you home to your parents who might do a lot worse.
Piece
Tour Winner
As the old saying goes, they should have worked a lot harder at school. Or perhaps attended school in the first place.
Every generation wheels out the same 'no future for the young' spiel. This country loves to give everything a label, or blame something, backed up with inquiries, judicial reviews, statistics and other means of branding, when in reality, cold hard facts and history give you the answers already - social disorder and protesting is our nature and is far more prevalent in poor and dysfunctional areas. BUT, the recent riots are different in that they are not poverty related, they are simply a result of opportunists, gang leaders and feral, uncontrolled children, teenagers and adults that feel the need to seen to be seen promoting anarchy. They piggy back on other causes (recent public sector tax marches in London, etc.) and once given window of opportunity to incite, they will use technology to coordinate, evade and live life on the edge...perhaps it's a new adrenaline sport?!?
In short, fcuk all to do with poverty these riots. Too easy and convenient to pin that label on them. These riots happened because it's thing to be seen doing in their pitiful life existence.
shagster
Head Pro
one interesting point i heard today, was how can you expect the youth of today to have any respect for law and order when we see poloticians lying and thieving, and people in the city robbing people blind, does capitalism work NO it just encorages greed, in different forms
shagster
shagster
Golfmmad
Tour Winner
I wouldn't mind betting that the vast majority of the 20% that are available to work, DO NOT WANT TO WORK.
You mention the early 80's, I remember them well.
Interest rates at 15% that crippled many people. But the vast majority got through it - eventually, without unrest and rioting.
I had my first mortgage at that time and really struggled with only my wages coming in, my Wife stayed at home to bring up the children, I took up a part time job as well to survive. I'm so glad now, that my Wife had that time with our two children,as we lost her to Cancer in '93, they were 7 and 11 at the time. I'm not looking for sympathy by the way.
I had a Social worker visit me shortly after and she said that I could go on benefit. How long would that last I asked, "As long as you want it to" came the reply. I got bored after a month and it didn't feel right, so started back to work part time.
The point I'm making here - well, you will understand my disdain at your continued support of the criminals and citing all the stats and data, which will do what to help the situation?
Golfmmad.
Tiger
Money List Winner
AW the poverty line is 60% below the median wage. So if the median wage is £20000 the poverty line is at £8000.
Tiger
Money List Winner
Golfmmad you are incorrect. Over the past two years (2009-2010) 18% of young people aged 16-24 were classed as NEET (Not in Education, Employment or Training. They were however not persistently unemployed. Only 1% were NEET for the entire period. The rest were in and out of short term opportunities. They were actively seeking work but struggled to get anything long term.
The pessimists among you will say they couldn't be bothered to stay in a job, thorough qualitative research tells a different story. One of young people not being given employment through lack of experience but being unable to get experience because no one will give them a job. And the longer that cycle continues the more suspiciously potential employers will treat them. Common perceptions of the unemployed are totally incorrect.
In relation to the 15% interest rate it has to be taken comparatively as a whole. Interest rates were extremely high but rent/mortages were not as high in relation to annual salary as they are now.
The pessimists among you will say they couldn't be bothered to stay in a job, thorough qualitative research tells a different story. One of young people not being given employment through lack of experience but being unable to get experience because no one will give them a job. And the longer that cycle continues the more suspiciously potential employers will treat them. Common perceptions of the unemployed are totally incorrect.
In relation to the 15% interest rate it has to be taken comparatively as a whole. Interest rates were extremely high but rent/mortages were not as high in relation to annual salary as they are now.
Tiger
Money List Winner
Golfmmad I am saying that there is a negative cycle being perpetuated. Once again I assert I am not condoning the criminal activities merely trying to explain the socio-economic reasons that cause that breakdown in community, morality and ethical judgement. I am trying to find a long term solution to help prevent/minimise this type of thing in the future.
Let's flip this on it's head. Your point of view is that this is a feral underclass that spurns any opportunities to improve themselves, have no intention to work and are intent on criminal activity. If that's the case why don't we have riots like this all the time? And what is your recommendation for how we deal with the situation once the tension dies down?
Let's flip this on it's head. Your point of view is that this is a feral underclass that spurns any opportunities to improve themselves, have no intention to work and are intent on criminal activity. If that's the case why don't we have riots like this all the time? And what is your recommendation for how we deal with the situation once the tension dies down?
drawboy
Tour Winner
I work in social housing and have done for nearly 20 years. I am in these peoples homes every day that is a fact. None of them are poor that is another fact. The kids live on takeaway food their living rooms and kitchens are strewn with cans of stella.smoked spliffs and cider.They love the almost obligatory Staffordshire bull terrier. They have televisions and sky tv,stereo's and ipods they all have mobile phones. So they cannot afford a car and a holiday to Spain. I can, I work in their homes for my money, I pay into my country. I know their world, I see their world. I hear their aspirations the pinacle of which is to get "on the Diss, 'cos then I've effing cracked it for life mate innit, I don't know why you bovver working it must be a right ball ache mush"
I know these people inside out they live all around me and again I say to all, no one is poor in this country if you do not work then you are provided for and no one has just reason to loot and burn.
I am not racist, I am not from another social divide. There is no longer 3 levels of class in this country upper,middle and working there are now 4 class levels. Upper,middle working and never working. Never working is currently in it's 3rd generation. Do not tell me there is no work immigrants can walk straight into work, it may be minimum wage but who pays 40 grand for someone to mop a floor or dust a desk. School is compulsary for a reason so EVERYONE gets the chance to improve themselves if they choose to follow their lazy arsed parents examples it is their fault not societies fault. The tools are provided if you choose to use them.
I know these people inside out they live all around me and again I say to all, no one is poor in this country if you do not work then you are provided for and no one has just reason to loot and burn.
I am not racist, I am not from another social divide. There is no longer 3 levels of class in this country upper,middle and working there are now 4 class levels. Upper,middle working and never working. Never working is currently in it's 3rd generation. Do not tell me there is no work immigrants can walk straight into work, it may be minimum wage but who pays 40 grand for someone to mop a floor or dust a desk. School is compulsary for a reason so EVERYONE gets the chance to improve themselves if they choose to follow their lazy arsed parents examples it is their fault not societies fault. The tools are provided if you choose to use them.
