Rooney - "not world class?"

[Deleted member 18121]

He's no Zidane. But he is the 5th top England scorer of all time & UTD's 3rd(will probably end up topping both)so maybe not so over hyped.

He's a good player, don't get me wrong.... he's just not as good as the media say he is. He's like the great white hope to England....well I'm sorry, but a few flashes of what might have been over a 10 year career don't make you world class and definitely don't make you the talisman for a nation.

 

[MadAdey]

I would never say Rooney is overated or that he is not a good player. I just hate the way people use the phrase for nearly every player in Europe.

To me every generation of footballers have those few players that just stand out above all others and they are the ones I would call "World Class". The players of this generation would be people like Messi and Ronaldo, before that you are talking about Zidane and Henry and so on.

I look at players along the lines of this, if you had an unlimited amount of money how much would you pay for him? Ronaldo and Messi could fetch £100M Rooney probably not much more than £30M. Antoher way I rate players is if I had to choose 2 teams to play each other of anyone in the world who would be in it? Would Rooney make it into your team? Maybe onto your bench............

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But Gerrard this season is performing a role for the team like never before?Just becuase he's not smashing them in every week doesn't mean he's not world class?...that pass at fulham won't be bettered this season,anywhere..world class.
Busquets is one of the 1st picks for Barca and Spain but not world class?

Dante and Kompany both superior to the PSG centre back?Suarez superior to Aguero or Rooney?..neither are more adaptable, that's for sure, and that's probably where Rooney falls down...he's too adaptable, too able to play left/right/10/9..Suarez and Ibra can't do that...so is Rooney MORE world class...I think he could play centre back, could Suarez or Aguero?


Cannae believe I'm defending Rooney against English folk....

Rooney being able to play CB doesn't make him world class - Suarez is a far more talented player than Rooney and produces on the pitch. Owen Hargreaves could play in various roles - doesn't make him World Class

Rooney is very good but he isn't at that top level of very good players

Gerrard was poor in the first half of the season

I have given my list of who I believe are currently the world class players at the moment

I believe your list would be different and be a lot more

World Class should be the very best of the best in their position - Rooney isn't.

As someone has said Rooney wouldn't walk into every team around .

Rooney is a quality player - he is very good , excellent

But he isn't at the top of the tree - he isn't in the same class as Messi , Ronaldo , Suarez and a few others mentioned.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

My hatred of Joey Barton knows no bounds. Mainly cos he always quotes The Smiths / philosophers in an attempt to be classed as 'intellectual' and I really like The Smiths, and anyone that stubbs a cigarette out in someone's eye can never be classed as intellectual.

However, unfortunately, I agree with a large part of what he's said here:

1) Rooney's lifestyle, arrogance and indulgence have ensured that he's never really fulfilled the potential which he undoubtedly had. Ronaldo has worked his nuts of to constantly improve and is given a huge amount of credit by those who worked with him and Man U and now Madrid for doing so.

2) Nobody believes we can win the World Cup. That said, I'd much rather us field a young team of hungry, ambitious players who would kill to wear that shirt than some of those who look like they can no longer give a toss. Genuinely, I'd play: Barkley, Lallana, Ward-Prowse, Shaw, Townsend over people like Cole, Lampard, Milner etc. Might as well build for the future if we're going to write it off before we start!

3) He does say, that on ability alone, Rooney could have been world class which I agree with. However, to be honest after being paid £300k a week to play for a team struggling to make european football this year, it's easy to see how his ambition may have waned.


If we did play that young team for England, then I think it might actually give Rooney a kick up arris to get playing proper football again and stop trying to be the hero he is desperate to be for United, playing every position on the pitch.

FWIW, my England team:

Hart
Shaw, Cahill, Jags, Baines
Lallana, Gerrard, Barkley, Townsend
Rooney, Rodriguez/Lambert/Carroll/Crouch

 

[Deleted member 15344]

My Spurs mate says that Townsend is massively overrated - been found out a bit

Sterling on performances alone should be in any England team , and Sturridge is a guarantee starter and isn't Shaw a LB


If they did concentrate on more youth ( like Germany did ) and brought in a manager with a bit more tactical knowledge about him then England might be more attractive to watch.

I would play

Hart

Johnson
Jagelkia
Cahill
Baines

Gerrard
Barkley
Wilshire

Sterling
Sturridge
Rooney

 

[Pin-seeker]

Of current players Ronaldo & Messi are in a league of their own. IMO Rooney would be in the next league with the likes of Bale,Aguero,Ibra,Hazard,Suarez,Falcou.......

 

[Pin-seeker]

My Spurs mate says that Townsend is massively overrated - been found out a bit

Sterling on performances alone should be in any England team , and Sturridge is a guarantee starter and isn't Shaw a LB


If they did concentrate on more youth ( like Germany did ) and brought in a manager with a bit more tactical knowledge about him then England might be more attractive to watch.

I would play

Hart

Johnson
Jagelkia
Cahill
Baines

Gerrard
Barkley
Wilshire

Sterling
Sturridge
Rooney

Townsend seems to play better for England than he does for spurs . I reckon Sterling will get the nod before him tho.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

I would play

Hart

Johnson
Jagelkia
Cahill
Baines

Gerrard
Barkley
Wilshire

Sterling
Sturridge
Rooney

Johnson shouldn't be anywhere near an England team. He's not a defender. He can't tackle and he can't head a ball. There's at least 3 better English right backs who have somehow been overlooked at his expense.

And I'm honestly not being anti-Liverpool as I love watching the team going forward at the moment, but don't think that either Sturridge or Sterling are good enough goal scorers. If you gave the same one-on-one opportunity to those two vs someone like Defoe or Crouch, I'd back the latter two to finish substantially more. Sturridge is playing well but thriving in a Liverpool team who are brimming with confidence thanks to the quality of Gerrard, Coutinho and Suarez. That said, wouldn't be hugely disappointed if he got the nod for the first game. And credit where its due for the goals he's scored.

Other than that, love Wilshire but thought he was injured, and if not would have the same as you with him over Townsend

 

[FairwayDodger]

I also think Rooney is a "world class" player but I have a different definition of "world class". He wouldn't make my current World XI but that doesn't stop him from being world class.

It's far to strict a distinction to make it simply the best player in the world in each position. Switch it to golf for a moment, who are the genuinely "world class" golfers? I don't think it's only Tiger Woods. (World #1)

 

[Liverbirdie]

I would play

Clemence

Johnson
P Thompson
J Carragher
R Jones

Gerrard
Henderson,
Sterling
Sturridge, Owen, Fowler

Fixed that for you Phil.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Johnson shouldn't be anywhere near an England team. He's not a defender. He can't tackle and he can't head a ball. There's at least 3 better English right backs who have somehow been overlooked at his expense.

And I'm honestly not being anti-Liverpool as I love watching the team going forward at the moment, but don't think that either Sturridge or Sterling are good enough goal scorers. If you gave the same one-on-one opportunity to those two vs someone like Defoe or Crouch, I'd back the latter two to finish substantially more. Sturridge is playing well but thriving in a Liverpool team who are brimming with confidence thanks to the quality of Gerrard, Coutinho and Suarez. That said, wouldn't be hugely disappointed if he got the nod for the first game. And credit where its due for the goals he's scored.

Other than that, love Wilshire but thought he was injured, and if not would have the same as you with him over Townsend

Sturridge hasn't stopped scoring for over 18 months now and also carried the team when we didn't have Suarez

Defoe and Crouch are part of an England past - neither have done anything over the past 2 years maybe more

Sturridge has 34 goals in 44 games since last Jan. Sterling right now is on fire - there isn't a wide man in the league playing better , that form will carry straight on into the World Cup. Those two form part of the best strike force in the league at moment. Not picking them would be crazy

As for Johnson - IMO he gets a bad rep about his defending but it's always bee on very good and certainly has more about him than Walker - he is solid and great at covering, sometimes his final ball isn't great - but wouldn't take anyone else in starting line up.

If Wilshire is injured then would put Lallana in there - you need a creator - Lallana is perfect , two footed , great eye for a pass.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Fixed that for you Phil.

Nice !!!!

 

[jimbob.someroo]

As for Johnson - IMO he gets a bad rep about his defending but it's always bee on very good and certainly has more about him than Walker - he is solid and great at covering, sometimes his final ball isn't great - but wouldn't take anyone else in starting line up.

If Wilshire is injured then would put Lallana in there - you need a creator - Lallana is perfect , two footed , great eye for a pass.

Lallana was in my team already, with Barkley and Gerrard.

The problem I have with Johnson is that you can get away with not being the world's best defender, if you contribute something going forwards. Roberto Carlos and on a more realistic level Riise when he played for Liverpool, were positive influences going forward with an end product.

If you're not going to do that, you need to be a solid defender, a la Gary Neville. You can't be an average defender and average going forward and be hailed as the best right-back in the country.

FWIW I'd pick Micah Richards, Michael Lowton, Nathaniel Clyne or Kyle Walker over Johnson. But aware that Johnson's experience will put him above the others in the England frame.

Happy to concede the point on Sturridge (first time that's ever been said on here?) but he's still not England quality for me. It's hard when you compare him to the quality of finishers we've had in the last 15 years (Shearer, Fowler, Owen, even Andy Cole in his prime) but for me, still has to prove himself when it matters, without the comfort blanket of that Liverpool team creating him a shedload of chances each game.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Lallana was in my team already, with Barkley and Gerrard.

The problem I have with Johnson is that you can get away with not being the world's best defender, if you contribute something going forwards. Roberto Carlos and on a more realistic level Riise when he played for Liverpool, were positive influences going forward with an end product.

If you're not going to do that, you need to be a solid defender, a la Gary Neville. You can't be an average defender and average going forward and be hailed as the best right-back in the country.

FWIW I'd pick Micah Richards, Michael Lowton, Nathaniel Clyne or Kyle Walker over Johnson. But aware that Johnson's experience will put him above the others in the England frame.

Happy to concede the point on Sturridge (first time that's ever been said on here?) but he's still not England quality for me. It's hard when you compare him to the quality of finishers we've had in the last 15 years (Shearer, Fowler, Owen, even Andy Cole in his prime) but for me, still has to prove himself when it matters, without the comfort blanket of that Liverpool team creating him a shedload of chances each game.

Will have to agree to disagree on Johnson - I'm just glad he is back for us because he is certainly contributing going forward for us - has a great understanding with Sterling

As for Sturridge - he isn't the same quality as Shearer , Owen or Fowler

Cole only scored 1 goal in 15 games for England - Sturridge already has 3 in 9 and what is "England Quality" - right now there is no England striker more clinical than Sturridge , he is the one Englishman in the scoring charts - the facts back him up. I actually thought he wasn't good enough when we bought him - his performances have proven me very wrong

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Is this the same Joey Barton who plays for QPR talking about professional mentality?

The same one who put a lit cigar out on a team mate at a Christmas Party?

The same chap who was in court a while back for assault?

The bloke charged with criminal damage and assault on a taxi driver?

The chap who ran over a pedestrian in Liverpool city centre at 2am in the morning?

..... And has only 1 (full) England cap.

He's hardly whiter than white is he, or the next Pele himself is he? People in glass houses and all that.

So he's not entitled to an opinion?

 

[MadAdey]

Happy to concede the point on Sturridge (first time that's ever been said on here?) but he's still not England quality for me. It's hard when you compare him to the quality of finishers we've had in the last 15 years (Shearer, Fowler, Owen, even Andy Cole in his prime) but for me, still has to prove himself when it matters, without the comfort blanket of that Liverpool team creating him a shedload of chances each game.

I find this a very strange statement to make. What is England quality then? 20 in 24 games this season, what is even more impressive is the fact that he is not the main target man upfront so getting all the chances as SUarez has got 29 in 27, so Sturridge is having to take chances when he gets them.

Ok I would not say he is the most complete all round striker the country has ever seen, but he is quick and will put it away when the chance comes. He is second in the Premier League scoring charts behind Suarez after all said and done. The list of English players goals look like this:

Sturridge 20
Rooney 15
Gerrard 11
Lambert 10
Welbeck 9
Crouch 8
Johnson 8
Ramsey 8

So, who you going to pick as our England partnership then? If Woy goes with 2 upfront which I am sure he will, then obviously Rooney will be one, that means you need someone who is going to push on the last defender and give Rooney space to work. A player that is fast that will make teams defend that 10 yards deeper for fear of it.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Cole only scored 1 goal in 15 games for England - Sturridge already has 3 in 9 and what is "England Quality" - right now there is no England striker more clinical than Sturridge , he is the one Englishman in the scoring charts - the facts back him up. I actually thought he wasn't good enough when we bought him - his performances have proven me very wrong

Which may be true, but two of those were in 7-0 and 4-1 results against San Marino and Montenegro, and t'other in an awful pointless friendly. I agree to disagree though, and am happy to give him a chance at the World Cup. Lord knows I want him to do well, I just have a feeling he wont.

In fairness, Cole didn't get a fair cop with England but is still the second-highest scorer in premier league history, ahead of Henry, Owen, Fowler, Rooney etc.

Anywho's off to the club for a go with me new putter

 

[drawboy]

As much as I detest him as I am from Leeds and have no time for MU (spit) I think Rooney is world class providing he has world class service something he isn't getting anymore at manchester and he rarely gets, less so these days in an England shirt. Give him the balls he needs and he will score all day and night.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Which may be true, but two of those were in 7-0 and 4-1 results against San Marino and Montenegro, and t'other in an awful pointless friendly. I agree to disagree though, and am happy to give him a chance at the World Cup. Lord knows I want him to do well, I just have a feeling he wont.

In fairness, Cole didn't get a fair cop with England but is still the second-highest scorer in premier league history, ahead of Henry, Owen, Fowler, Rooney etc.

Anywho's off to the club for a go with me new putter

Cole couldn't hack it at international level :thup:

1 goal in 15 games

Enjoy the new putter

 

[jimbob.someroo]

So, who you going to pick as our England partnership then?

Honestly? Rooney and Carroll. Whilst Carroll isn't as good a striker as Sturridge, I feel he would add more to the team as a whole and would be hungry to work his arse off. He gives us a target up front and with the awful football we play which inevitably leads to a hoof, we might as well have someone in their half who can win a header and bring the other forwards into the game.

If not Carroll, then Crouch or Lambert. I don't want us to play long ball football, but at the end of the day we're going to play the odd long ball, and there's no point getting lads to put balls in the box if you haven't got someone in there to win the headers.