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Deleted member 15344
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Roll Back Discussion
- Thread starter Imurg
- Start date
Wabinez
Journeyman Pro
yes, growing the rough negatively impacts the recreational golfer. Slower rounds, more lost balls, frustration.
a ball for an amateur that would go 5 yards less is much better and I hope it becomes a full rollback for all by 2030 or so
Mel Smooth
Hacker
The only courses that are going to need to grow the rough would be those hosting top level comps aren't they? Why would amateurs effectively benefit from making their home courses longer?
Wabinez
Journeyman Pro
I was writing about the hundreds of courses across the globe that would simply ‘grow the rough’ as seems to be the fix from many here. they will be impacted.
D-S
Well-known member
Not sure if this has been highlighted elsewhere but this is an interesting survey based on real data that is a key part of this debate. It also belies a lot of claims in golf forums!
https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/da...stance-in-amateur-game-has-actually-decreased
https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/da...stance-in-amateur-game-has-actually-decreased
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
Thats consistent with the R&A data I think.
The distance increase due to ball and club development happened in 1995-2005. Since then, there has been no distance gain, year to year, (despite the claims of those hoodwinked by the manufacturers unrelenting marketing).
Arcos data, doesnt go back that far. Within a margin of error, I would take that data to be no change in the last four years, though it does possibly indicate that technology maybe has gone back a little. Possibly they know that carbon heads and turbulators and the like are slightly counterproductive, but implement them nonetheless t have a story to tell each spring beyond just new colourways.
The horse bolted on distance 20 years ago. Its a shame the R&A and USGA didnt go with this ball limit (or another 15 yards shorter even) back then.
The distance increase due to ball and club development happened in 1995-2005. Since then, there has been no distance gain, year to year, (despite the claims of those hoodwinked by the manufacturers unrelenting marketing).
Arcos data, doesnt go back that far. Within a margin of error, I would take that data to be no change in the last four years, though it does possibly indicate that technology maybe has gone back a little. Possibly they know that carbon heads and turbulators and the like are slightly counterproductive, but implement them nonetheless t have a story to tell each spring beyond just new colourways.
The horse bolted on distance 20 years ago. Its a shame the R&A and USGA didnt go with this ball limit (or another 15 yards shorter even) back then.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
Since pros don’t have arcoss sensors on their clubs I got this from last years distance report. Looks like the big hike ended around 2005 but it has still increased since then.
Arcoss data is all very well but I haven’t heard many people saying there’s a distance problem for regular club golfers so I don’t think it is relevant in this debate. I cant remember most of the thread though so I could be wrong.
Arcoss data is all very well but I haven’t heard many people saying there’s a distance problem for regular club golfers so I don’t think it is relevant in this debate. I cant remember most of the thread though so I could be wrong.
Crow
Crow Person
One of the reasons I ditched modern clubs was because I wasn't experiencing golf's full spectrum.
If even a relatively short hitting old fart like me had noticed the change then long hitters must have their heads in the sand, or they just like drive, short iron par fours and not having any par fives that play as three shotters.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
What do you think a 400 yard hole should play (club-wise) for an average club golfer?
Golfnut1957
Newbie
My understanding is that your average club golfer has a mid-teen (17.2) handicap. Obviously distance doesn't denote handicap as a very long hitter may have a terrible short game. But to answer your question I would say driver, hybrid.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
Do you think that’s what it is now, or what it should be? Or are they one and the same?
Golfnut1957
Newbie
I don't care much about what anyone thinks it should be and after giving it a bit more thought I think I was being generous and that the average golfer in the UK is hitting driver, wood/hybrid and probably chipping at the end of all that.
The average golfers who are hitting driver, 8 iron are missing the green 30 yards right. If they are not then they are not average golfers, either that or terrible putters.
The average golfers who are hitting driver, 8 iron are missing the green 30 yards right. If they are not then they are not average golfers, either that or terrible putters.
Crow
Crow Person
Average golfer is hard to define so here's a few options with today's equipment:
20 to 40 year old, 12 to 18 handicap - drive 250+ followed by short iron (8 or less) to green.
40 to 50 year old, 12 to 18 handicap - drive 240+ followed by 7 iron or less to green.
50 to 60 year old, 12 to 18 handicap - drive 220+ followed by mid-iron or hybrid to green.
60 to 70 year old, 12 to 18 handicap - drive 200'ish followed by fairway wood or long iron to green.
Assuming the course was built 1980 or earlier, the hole might have been designed to be played for the majority of players as drive 200+ followed by fairway wood or long iron to green.
The above of course are hypothetical and don't take into account any miss-hits.
It's the 325 to 350 yard holes that have really been made a mockery of though.
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
Average club golfer probably needs to be a little more defined.
For a 5hc : Drive and 5i.
15hc : Drive and a 5w
25hc : Drive 5w and a 50y pitch
D-S
Well-known member
From the report quoted in post 488, your driving yardages are about 20 yards out (too far) according to 2022 data.
There are a few too many forum distances being used here 
. A 400yd hole is needing 3 shots to the green for about half of the field, based on most golfers I've played with over the years. The last shot may just be a dink, a punch or a little pitch but many will need that 3rd shot before the putter comes out.
. A 400yd hole is needing 3 shots to the green for about half of the field, based on most golfers I've played with over the years. The last shot may just be a dink, a punch or a little pitch but many will need that 3rd shot before the putter comes out.
Crow
Crow Person
Those averages no doubt include all types of weather and course conditions, I'm imagining about good weather and course conditions.
From my experience, for a reasonably fit young to middle aged golfer, the need for long irons and fairway woods on all but the longest par fours no longer exists.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I would agree with this.
But we do need them on some of the stupidly long par 3s now.!
Mel Smooth
Hacker
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
It's their prerogative, they don't even have to keep to the rules of golf if they don't want to.
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