Roll Back Discussion

[Wabinez]

So losing distance has no effect at all on handicaps?

losing distance will have an effect. however, 5 yards here and there will make no discernible difference. Maybe a few decimal places here and there. Amateur choppers aren't going to lose 25 yards overnight.

Distance is still king.

 

[Swango1980]

No. Ratings are based on the distances the model scratch and bogey golfers hit the ball, not real-world averages.
Rollback will bring the two closer together again, after years of having a technology-driven difference between them.

Are you saying Course and Bogey ratings are currently inaccurate, due to the impact of technology?

 

[D-S]

losing distance will have an effect. however, 5 yards here and there will make no discernible difference. Maybe a few decimal places here and there. Amateur choppers aren't going to lose 25 yards overnight.

Distance is still king.

OK 10 yards gain good, 5 yards loss no impact - got it.

 

[BiMGuy]

OK 10 yards gain good, 5 yards loss no impact - got it.

Just hole more putts to compensate for the loss of distance

 

[wjemather]

Are you saying Course and Bogey ratings are currently inaccurate, due to the impact of technology?

No. I'm saying they are based on standards distances for model scratch and bogey golfers.

 

[wjemather]

OK 10 yards gain good, 5 yards loss no impact - got it.

10 yards gain sells equipment; 5 yards loss doesn't.

 

[Swango1980]

No. I'm saying they are based on standards distances for model scratch and bogey golfers.

What is a standard distance for a scratch and bogey player in the year 2023. What would have been the standard distance, in say, the year 1960? And what will be the standard distance in the future if the technology changes again?

I'm not sure how we can make a big deal about equipment that will go longer or shorter, and then argue it will have no impact on standard distances.

 

[wjemather]

What is a standard distance for a scratch and bogey player in the year 2023. What would have been the standard distance, in say, the year 1960? And what will be the standard distance in the future if the technology changes again?

I'm not sure how we can make a big deal about equipment that will go longer or shorter, and then argue it will have no impact on standard distances.

You seem to be overlooking the key word - "model".

 

[Swango1980]

You seem to be overlooking the key word - "model".

Right. So the handicap system is not really based on reality? They just pick a couple of numbers out of the air, call that the model standard distance, job done.

Sounds like these distances are even more arbitrary than Par

 

[Wabinez]

What is a standard distance for a scratch and bogey player in the year 2023.

250 yards scratch

200 yards bogey

 

[Crow]

Before we all get into a bit of a tizzy, I've played rounds with a whole range of balls from 1.62" Dunlop 65s, through old balatas, to the latest Pro V1, and the ball being used makes very little noticeable difference to my scoring.

All those saying that the game will be ruined by a ball roll-back, or that players will leave the game in droves, or that new players won't be attracted by the new difficult golf (boo-hoo ) are wrong, completely wrong.

Close the thread.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Oops, wrong thread.

 

[wjemather]

Right. So the handicap system is not really based on reality? They just pick a couple of numbers out of the air, call that the model standard distance, job done.

Sounds like these distances are even more arbitrary than Par

No, they were not plucked out of the air. They are simply not changed on a regular basis due to the immense workload that would create in re-rating courses. Indeed, any change at all would probably necessitate a variance in excess of 20 yards between the model and real-world averages.

 

[Mandofred]

Before we all get into a bit of a tizzy, I've played rounds with a whole range of balls from 1.62" Dunlop 65s, through old balatas, to the latest Pro V1, and the ball being used makes very little noticeable difference to my scoring.

All those saying that the game will be ruined by a ball roll-back, or that players will leave the game in droves, or that new players won't be attracted by the new difficult golf (boo-hoo ) are wrong, completely wrong.

Close the thread.

Spot on

 

[RichA]

Doesn't the effect of the ball change depend entirely on the method used to reduce distance?
If they simply reduced the maximum compression it really wouldn't affect the vast majority of non-elite amateur golfers. ProV1 lovers who aren't really good enough to justify them might even gain a few yards if a slightly softer variant was made.

*I haven't really been following this thread, so there's a massive possibility I'm completely missing the point.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I thought the reasoning behind this was to "protect" the integrity of some of the classic courses and prevent them being taken apart by the current professional players. If the average new championship courses are designed to a 8000 yds ish from the back tees then why can't the so-called classics be further lengthened with a set of Championship tees to bring the driving hazards back into play.

Whilst I accept this could be difficult there are many courses where there is land available to do this as Augusta has demonstrated over the years.

Surely this is easier than trying to "slug" the ball with all the problems this will cause.

 

[Swango1980]

No, they were not plucked out of the air. They are simply not changed on a regular basis due to the immense workload that would create in re-rating courses. Indeed, any change at all would probably necessitate a variance in excess of 20 yards between the model and real-world averages.

At least all our handicaps are based on outdated numbers. Very reassuring

 

[wjemather]

At least all our handicaps are based on outdated numbers. Very reassuring

They are not outdated; they are current. A model golfer is simply not an average golfer.
If you want to learn about course rating, your county would likely welcome another volunteer.

 

[Swango1980]

They are not outdated; they are current. A model golfer is simply not an average golfer.
If you want to learn about course rating, your county would likely welcome another volunteer.

And a model golfer is not impacted by technology. A model scratch golfer would hit a ball the same distance now as they would in 1960 and will hit it the same distance if roll back happens. Same with a bogey golfer.

It's intriguing that the system is based on model golfers unaffected by technology.

 

[Wabinez]

USGA, R&A to announce universal golf ball rollback next week

The USGA and R&A are expected to announce early next week that they will be changing the rules to roll back distance—and not just for elite players.

www.golfdigest.com